AFFAIRCARE

…nouthetic, Christian care after an affair.

A child born of adultery

59 Comments

baby

We had a GREAT question asked to us on our “The Purpose of No Contact” page.  It was such a great question, in fact, that I thought it would be helpful to several others in a similar situation if I wrote a post about it!   Here’s the question:

“What happens when a child is born from adultery, how do you sustain the no contact rule and do what is right for the child?”

The first thing I want you to do is to take a look at that picture at the top of this post.  Can you tell by looking at that picture if that child was conceived in love?  Can you tell if it is a child of rape or of adultery?  You can not tell, can you?  And to the baby…it can not tell either.  It is a human being whom God did not just “allow” to come into this world–He was actively involved in the conception and creating of life–even if the coming together of the sperm and the egg was through sinful circumstances.  So before we go any further, the baby — the child — is not involved in “how it was conceived.”  The child is an innocent, and the child needs love and needs a mom and dad in its life.

Now that that is out of the way, let’s jump into the actual question.  When one spouse is Disloyal and commits adultery, and the Loyal spouse is willing to reconcile, in order for the affair to truly END and the recovery to begin, there has to be complete and utter, 100% NO CONTACT with the Affair Partner.  I think when there is no child conceived, people generally understand why and how to do this.  But when a child IS conceived, what do you do?    HOW do you do it?   It seems impossible to cut all contact with the person who is the other parent of your child, and to be honest, it is extremely difficult!  BUT that is also one of the reasons why affairs are so destructive and the damage is so devastating–because the Disloyal puts the Loyal into the position of having an STD or a child that will be a constant reminder for life!

But getting beyond that, here are some practical ideas:

1.  Bear in mind that when a man and woman have children together and divorce, they may need to communicate ON THE OCCASION, but by-in-large they do not need to talk every day, they do not need to do things for each other, and they are no longer involved in each others’ day-to-day lives.  Thus, when your Disloyal Spouse claims that they need to be mettling in their Affair Partner’s life or be involved doing things on a daily basis… no they don’t.  No matter who is who, the female person had unprotected sex with someone and made a baby, and she made that choice; she’s responsible TO THE CHILD. And likewise the male person had unprotected sex with someone and made a baby, and he made that choice; he is responsible TO THE CHILD.  Now if they had been smart, they would have considered that the reason a person only has sex within a committed, lifetime marriage is for the stability it offers to their potential children!  But they were not smart, and now they do each owe THE CHILD, but neither one of them owes a thing to their adultery partner!!!!!  Their promise was to their spouse, and anything they owe (like loyalty or honor) is to their SPOUSE.

2.  Get everything about the baby/child legal and court-ordered.  Have a legal custody agreement, a legal parenting plan, and a legal child support order.  This is to protect both the Loyal and Disloyal Spouse from an Affair Partner out for revenge, and to the protect the child.  There should be a way to enforce visitation and where the child lives and when, and if there is a court-ordered custody and parenting plan, even if the Other Person goes insane, the court can help you enforce it.  Likewise there should be clearly-defined child support, which protects you by itemizing exactly how much is owed to whom and when…and can document/prove who gave how much to whom and when.  Of course, if you are the Disloyal Spouse you owe it to the child that you created to take care of its needs and provide for the child, same as if you and your spouse had a child together.  If you owe child support, YOU PAY IT–not your spouse.

3. There is absolutely no reason for either of the Affair Partners to email, chat, text or call each other.  Ever.  There can always be an intermediary, and that can be anyone: the Loyal Spouse, a pastor or mentor, a mutual friend, a parent, an attorney, or a day-care person.  The Affair Partner can send any communication to the intermediary, and the intermediary can get  the message to the Disloyal Spouse.  Period.  NO CONTACT.

4.  Exchanging the child does not require contact either!  There is no reason why the child could not be left at an intermediary or neutral place, and this works better as the child gets older.  For example, the “mom” leaves the baby at day care on Wednesday morning and goes to her work…the “dad” picks up the baby at day care Wednesday night on his way home from work.  Then he keeps the child until Sunday, when “dad” drives the child to Sunday School and “mom” picks up the child after Sunday School at church.   The drop off point could be McDonald’s, school, a sport (like if the child is in baseball) or practice, or a park!  When the child is just an infant baby, it may require more time with mom, but even as an infant, the baby could be dropped off and picked up at day care or a mutual friend’s house. Either way… NO CONTACT!

5.  The hardest part of having a child out of adultery is the honest fact that on the occasion there are going to be emergencies–but an “emergency” does not mean “baby mama drama”!!!  It means blood or fire.  It means the child got hurt or is ill.  If the child has a cold–that is not an emergency.  In the event of an actual emergency, I suggest that the Loyal and Disloyal Spouses just have a Mutual Agreement about how to handle it.  If you have a reasonable Other Person, if the affair was literally years ago, and if everyone is out of each others’ lives and pretty respectful, it’s conceivable the Loyal may be okay with the Disloyal getting true emergency contact.  It’s far from ideal, but having an affair is far from ideal!!  On the other hand, some Loyal Spouses may not be able to handle any contact ever, in which case I suggest that the emergency calls go to the Loyal Spouse.  I mean if A and B are married and B had an affair with C and had a child, C could call A and say “There is thus and such emergency” and A could tell B and meet at the Emergency Room!  Chances are that C would not be calling A with every little papercut either.

6.  Finally, if you are a Loyal Wife and your Disloyal Husband got the Other Woman pregnant, it is possible and okay for you to choose to love and raise and accept the child as your own together as a couple.  Likewise if you are a Loyal Husband and your Disloyal Wife got pregnant by the Other Man, there is no law that says you can’t choose to love and raise and accept the child as your own together as a couple either.  My point here is that often people just assume that the baby would live “elsewhere” and that does not HAVE TO be the case.  If you have the love within your heart to adopt a child and love it because you choose to commit to it–then maybe you have the love within to choose THIS child too.   If you can see past the circumstances of how the child came to your life, and instead see all the joys and laughs and energy and fun and life that the child will bring to you… then I encourage you to be the custodial parents!  Show the child what love really is: a choice to treat someone in a loving way.

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59 thoughts on “A child born of adultery

  1. Thank you for posting this and responding to my question. We are doing all of the above, paying child support and have been mediating through our shepherd. We have had a DNA test and the child does belong to my husband. The child i will soon be 3yrs old. Our problem is that she refuses contact because we have, to protect our marriage all that you have written above. She feels that he should go to see the child without me his wife being involved and has therefore withheld contact with the child. This is causing a strain on our marriage. I am trying to do the right by those who did not do the right thing by me. We have 4 children and our family has really suffered. Thanks to God her refusal to agree to contact has given us time to rebuild our marriage and reinstall security for our children. I am being made to feel that I as the wife am causing a barrier to the child knowing who her father is. However I feel that God will want us to put the marriage first. The OP has said when the child grows and if she should ask she will tell her who her father is. Until then she will get on with her life. She has contact with my husbands father and brother and she takes the child there to see her relatives. I understand the child should know who she is related to however I feel long term the child should have been introduced to the familyin acceptance through me and my husband for the benefit of the child. My husband has made many mistakes and he is remorseful and repentant. He has agreed to all the conditions our Pastor has laid out enabling our marriage to repair. My question is do I agree to my husband visiting the child in an agreed location without me? He admitted he would feel very uncomfortable me being present. P

    • Appeaseme, I am in the same situation. My husband feels guilty for creating a fatherless child, but the ex-mistress says she will not let me around her child (now a toddler). She only wants him to visit on his own, in her house. She moved out of state when she found out that my husband would not leave me and marry her to raise their child together. So they are far away, but my husband still wants to know his child.

      I want all of us (my husband, I, and our child) to have a relationship with the other child. But the ex-mistress is so spiteful, so controlling. I don’t know if I should encourage my husband to go visit them without me. It seems like suicide for our marriage. The ex-mistress is very manipulative. Yet my husband is tormented with guilt…he asks me why his child of marriage has all the blessings of two parents, and his other child is treated by him like a second class citizen, who may grow up feeling abandoned and worthless? (He does pay child support.)

      What have you decided to do since your posting in May?

      • It is imperative to the future of your marriage that your husband does not see the child without you, both for the benefit of the child and the marriage. Whilst the childs welfare is important nothing must come before the marriage. Your husband will feel guilty until he lets go of the responsibility and allows the Lord to do what he has to do. Yes your husband as the biological father is responsible for the child, however he needs to let go of the need to “fix” the situation. Just like our situation you have both agreed to welcome the child into your lives, however she has declined this invitation because it means she will have no control over the situation or your husband. For now it is easy for her to cut ties as the child is young and she can mask to outsiders what she has done, it is easy at this age to brush off the reasons why a childs father is not in the picture, however a time will come when she will have to explain to the child why she continued to make choices not for the child but for herself. If you agree to your husband seeing this child without your involvement it will severely effect your marriage. You are one, you are his wife therefore it will be detrimental to this child if he goes to see the child and continue to allow the child grow as the “outsider” the unspoken or seen altercation in his life. For the survival of your marriage and both mental and emotional reasons for the child he/she needs to build a relationship with both of you and eventually brought into your family with both of your support and consent. If your husband goes through the back door to see this chid the child will always remain the dirty mistake and secret not openly acknowledged and loved. Also your marriage will never be able to completely heal because you too will also be left on the outside, how can your marriage survive if one of you is experiencing a relationship elsewhere that can never be shared with your spouse? growth and development will be stunted. Like with the other lady who commented her husband is experiencing the tormenting daily ritual of living two lives, unable to embrace and share his concerns regarding the children with his wife, knowing that his two live will never meet, he is spilt in two, literally, and therefore unable to make a positive deposit into either situation. As a result he is trapped and will become more withdrawn and more than likely fall into depression as he continues to feel helpless and governed by the situation. He can never go to his wife and complain, share his concerns, seek counsel in her, or comfort through her in this situation because he has made his bed and in his eyes he has no option but to lay in it. the down side to this is that he may find someone else to talk to and that could be dangerous depending on his mental and emotional state and the persons intentions. The woman is holding out as long as she can with holding the child because of the “wife” however she knew he had a wife when she chose to have children with him, her mistake was risking more than she was prepared to loose. She knows a time will come when she will be forced through the child to do what is right. Like with my husband he also feels guilty there is a child out there, however until she chooses to do the right thing his hands are tied and he will have to live with that and seek God. We keep every communication and email so that when the child asks she will understand why we were not in her life and she will have to make her own conclusions. The children are important, however there is much more and so many more lives riding on getting this right than just focussing on the child. It is also within the child’s interest that both you and your husbands marriage survives so that later on they can understand forgiveness, reconciliation and love, bringing them into the marriage through both of your open arms not just your husbands out of responsibility. The child will grow to know eventually that your husband is only in contact with the child under duress and through responsibility and not love.

  2. My husband had two children with the OW on purpose. She wanted to be a “single mom by choice’ having had 6 years as the OW while I was homeschooling our children teaching them biblical truths.
    This woman knew from the onset their arrangement was only for sex and that my husband ‘would never leave me because he loved me and his family”This was confirmed in an email I found on D DAY …14 years this secret life had gone on while we were moved frequently to follow his climb up the corp ladder.
    After D DAY he quit the relationship with no contact agreed but after two years he secretly began to see the children. I had discussed the need for them to see him previously but had wanted our marriage to have a chance to heal some before and for him to gain understanding and learn about boundaries.
    He resumed seeing them without telling me after two years of his weak attempts to participate in what we needed to do to reconcile.
    He finally admitted his deceit after another two years, He does not want the OW and now ‘hates’ her for what they did .
    His involvement with the children is without me due to the instability of the OW . Out of concern for the children I do not involve myself also for the sake of our children who are now adults , quite intellegent and godly but have been deeply effected to learn their father is not the man they thought they knew.

    His involvement with the children effected our marriage and family much the same as the adultery . His demeanor grows more and more distant and disconnected each time he returns from being with them . It is now every day in order to take them to school or pick them up and to be sure they eat .

    We have depleted our finances in order to pay child support that is nearly three times the legal amount and way beyond our ability to keep up. Our retirement has also been nearly used up as he tries to build a new business. I am retired.
    The children are turned against us and the faith we hold dear as we are followers of Christ and their mother is a self proclaimed leftist.
    She once came to a party at our home and I showed her our class room and shared our faith with her . She left and began her campaign to ‘get ‘ my husband to ‘give her children ‘ ….so they were PLANNED.

    I am brokenhearted and now my husband sleeps in another room despite my requests for him to return to our bedroom. This has also disrupted our daughters lives and they are having difficulties with the way my husband’s involvement with the Other Children seems to have caused him to put them first in his considerations.
    The other children go to therapy much as their mother always has and all are on some kind of drug for some kind of psychological reason.

    The outcome does not look good as these children are growing up without the kind of relationship with my husband that is for THEIR good but more for HIS ego.
    He does not want to be a ‘deadbeat’ dad but there are other ways a father can be one…more like a ‘fairweather ‘ father who does not guide, train or teach but is only there for the opportunity to enjoy what are the highlights.

    I have tried to offer him support and counsel from the many years I was left to raise OUR children without his participation as all other activities then were too important for him to become involved in our family.

    Now he does not know how to do the most important things a father can do for the children AND for his own benefit in learning .

    He does not have the kind of involvement with the other children either.

    Maybe had he responded to the needs of our children throughout their growing years he would have realized that children are not like getting a pet…it seems they gave little thought to the actual work of raising children

    She now leaves them often alone starting when they were young and even at night …even as one child has some neurological problems.

    This mess is so awful I find it difficult to find ANY others to compare. But my husband had he ever really decided that he does not know everything and would learn to care about people as he has claimed he does….would not have done such things.
    He simply got married I think now as a ‘front’ and a ‘protection’ for his image and so that he could get involved with other women and have an excuse for why he could not marry them!

    He will not have the kind of needed relationship with the other children THEY need and soon as they are teens it will become even more difficult because he refuses to parent them …he wants to be their buddy …this is good but not useful to guide them as they need and their mother does not do this …true a child needs a father …but being a father is more than just coming around for few minutes ….with money…now even that is sparse.

    Now we are back when we first married. We had nothing but a common faith ..when he began to make money he became ‘invincible’ and the women were happy to trade sex for whatever his guilt and ego would supply them with.

    The OW got a house , a new car when she got pregnant and a lifetime [ mine not hers since she is a lot younger] of support ..at least until those children reach 18 …at my age ….that means pretty much beyond my lifespan.

    What a great man they have for a father.

    Sad…no amount of ‘loving ‘ my husband has made any difference…no amount of forgiveness or respect or honor …he ate it up and went out for MORE …MORE is the name of the game for a man like him ….sad for all of the children he has to observe his lack of concern for his impulsive and deceitful ways ..and NO ONE would ever suspect ..He is really very intelligent and pretty much admired by all who grew up with him and have worked with him …What they don’t know !

    This WILL be revealed …eventually …but I am not going to be the one to ‘out ‘ him …”nothing is hidden that will not be revealed’ He seems to be ‘coasting ‘ on borrowed time without too much concern about seeking to change.

    Time will tell …in the mean time I am working out my healing and doing what I can to help my daughters. We will be married 33 years soon. His investing in others and now those children pretty much stole what our VOWS promised to bring about to all .

    He never truly “entered into” our marriage as it was intended to provide him with great blessings if he had been willing to participate in it.

    All his efforts are in superficial relationships …sadly he won’t go get help.

    • So sorry to hear fo this Lovey, you all sound wounded and are deeply grieving. I am sure that your husband feels he has no control over the situation, guilt must be tormenting him day by day. However I know a redeemer who can heal the wounds and fix the broken places. Jesus. I have been working on the following scripture: 1 Peter 3:1 “Wives, in the same way submit yourselves to your own husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives,” My advice to you is to love your husband, more than you have ever loved him before, do things for him affirm him and build him up. He needs it now more than ever. You mention he never entered into the marriage, however from my take had he wanted to leave he has more than enough opportunity to do so, your kids are grown and therefore he could quite easily leave if he wanted to. However he has chosen to stay. Sounds as if he doesnt know where to begin to put things right, he may feel that it is such a big mess to not bother and just continue as he is. You are both one so if you are hurting I am sure he is also very deeply wounded by his actions.

      • let him talk to you about his other family, become his confidant, he may not deserve it, but seems like he is a very lost soul. There’s def. a fight from the enemy on ur family’s life, so pray againest the principalities that work to hurt and break not only ur family but the other family. pray for God to give you the strength to truly forgive him and to love him the way christ loves u. sometimes when people make disheartning decisions around us, we may feel entitled for hurt, resentment, anger, nd other feelings that makes others feel like they’re the sccumb of the earth, but i believe the goal in this life is to imitate christ, nd christ carried the sins of all, nd not one min. did he feel entitled to put down, accuse, beat the sinners, instead he carried it on the cross with love. by no means am i sayin that ur accusing or mistreating ur husband, but this is just to give a prespective of how much ur love can grow for him even in this situation, nd that everything u do in secret God will reward u, human experience is beyound we can fathom, and love truly covers a multitude of sin, its much much better to live with forgiveness nd love than to hold on to any resentment, or anger nd even hurt.
        It seems like ur the faith warrior for u family, dont give up, God has placed u with this family long ago knowing how all things wud turn out, cuz he made u z perfect candidate for this situation, nd where sin abounds grace abounds more, keep on fighting for ur family thru prayer and love. the grace u need to do so is alrdy sufficient for u. trust the lord and ull not be ashmed, doesnt matter how many years go by, evry tears from ur eyes God has seen nd he will change ur mourning into singing.
        I guess one thing i suggest is prolly to involve urself with the other family, as hurtful as it maybe to u, it might give a breakthru for ur husband, perhaps if he feels like he can talk to u abt his other family, it might lesson his guilt a bit, nd open up to u more and maybe even talk abouy setting boundaries and getting help and all that, but this is purely my suggestion
        you prolly have sensed that i didnt say much abt him, but i have heard many stories abt people that cheat and the torture they go thru, sin by itself has a way of torturing people, with guilt, hopelessness, disgrace…etc.
        all in all, dont give up, u r the light for this family. nd the all ur pain is seen by God and not one of them is dismissed for forgotten, God will give u years of joy, nd blessings nd everything the enemy is tryin to take from u, but stand firm and fight. The victory belongs to God.
        Lord i give this family unto u, protect them, guide them, In Jesus name, Amen!!!

  3. Thank you for your reply . I would agree with your statement that he must feel like he doesn’t know what to do or how to make it ‘better’ . I ‘feel’ for him as well . However all the things he has been offered by me to help him to begin to offer even little things to engage or let me know how he actually cares about the mess he has refused to do .

    He has plenty of time and energy to do what he wants to do.
    I have continued to do what I can to extend love and care for him . I feel that my efforts are only being ‘endured ‘ …which I find difficult to understand if it is because he does not enjoy my efforts …as I feel he sort of cringes if I hug him , or even touch him . He has not wanted to engage in loving in any way for about two years.

    I would like to think that he stayed with me for ME but I see other reasons unfortunately that seem to dilute my feeling that this is the reason.
    His public image, his career , his comfort in maintaining his ‘normal’ life while not really doing anything to extend love , affection or care to me.

    Our daughters feel that he cares for the other children more than for them …although I find this abhorant and he would deny it vehimently . But he has not been considerate of how they feel and not pursued them in ways that would be what THEY need . I gave him the different ways that he might begin to relate to them as well but he has been resistant to deal with it.

    I know many who are having this kind of time with the spouse who was unfaithful. They seem to feel that they should just sweep it under the rug . This does not help anyone DEAL with the reality which is one of the things that leads to infidelity in the first place.

    I believe and I have found many resources to support this that the spouse who has been unfaithful cannot really move forward and benefit from what adultery would reveal about them if they refuse to engage in the work of their own investigation. The Lord ‘s Word tells us to examine ourSELVES and measure ourselves by the Word to see if we are IN Christ..
    Those who are not IN Christ or believers are not prone to want to do that . The Word is living , it is spirit , it is life …and Jesus IS the WORD of God.

    I lived by the ‘meek and quiet’ way that you suggest and I still believe that it is true to be thus UNTO THE LORD …in terms of how my husband demonstrated his ‘appreciation ‘ for my respect and honor of his being my husband …he abused the trust by living his fantasy life on the back of me and our family!

    I also appreciate the way compassion works but I believe also that loving him involves being honest and straightforward about the need he has for seeking repentance.

    I believe your encouragement to show love, compassion and tenderness is correct….I also believe love will not stand by and say nothing when someone is in need of seeking to learn how their sinful behavior has damaged not only others but themSELVES .

    What do you suggest. I feel that the past 33 years I have been consistant in not standing in the way of my husband’s decisions and way of living his life while also not behaving rudely nor allowing rude and thoughtless behavior to go unaddressed.

    The heart of someone who is unrepentant and does not care to return to the Lord or to investigate how to reconcile seems really not just a matter of TIME …now 6 years of trying times with seeking more wisdom in the Word …but it seems to me from what I have been learning that the hardened heart of an unrepentant is going to have some harder times ahead if they are not moved to deal with it.

    True enough …I am NOT the person that can change this man’s heart …but I know the one who can …Jesus Christ….the thing is that if a person rejects and rebels against the Lord and will not receive the Word of GOD with meekness …they are not going to take heed….

    Faith comes by hearing ..and not just with the ear but with a heart prepared to receive…to recognize the need for the Lord ..an authority higher than one’s own desires .

    Thus far he is indeed a very sad man …not just over what damage he has done but because even with forgiveness there is some requirement of effort and indication of caring to learn how to reconcile.

    At least that is what I have been learning thus far.

    I had hoped that his care for the children of the OW would cause him to see his need to allow the Word to counsel him and thus perhaps in his need ..he would come to the Lord ….So far there is still the resistance to any kind of what he already knows of the Word in all matters.

    Adultery and the length of it really does seem to darken the heart and the understanding …

    Thank you for your kind reply ..it somehow does comfort …and it is a form of ‘bearing on another’s burdens’ ….I appreciate this from you and your sweet heart.

    Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

    Pretty much what happened to him….sadly …but hope springs eternal ….His life is not over til it’s over and he still has had the merciful blessing of STILL breathing ! Thank you Lord for your long-suffering

    .2 Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

    Luk 17:3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and IF he repent, forgive him.

    I am committed to marriage as unto the Lord .

    Thanks again for your encouragement …I really needed that especially today ! Hugs!

    • If you love him, let him go to where he feels he needs to be. I suspect it will actually be a great relief to you both. You’re children are grown; and I wonder if perhaps you are afraid of being on your own? I hope not. And I think a truly loving and compassionate woman like yourself would not go unnoticed for too long. But then again, having dedicated your life to homeschooling your children, and your family, perhaps it is time to put yourself first. And not in a selfish way. In a loving way, that you deserve. He may have never really committed to the marriage, but I wonder if you have ever truly committed to yourself? I think if you had, you would not continue in a pattern of behaviour and in a relationship that is clearly making you both stressed and miserable. Some things simply run their course. When my partner and I finally separated, after 18 months of “trying” to repair things for the sake of our children, it was a great relief. And with a little more time, the underlying friendship and respect for each other is strong.

  4. I understand your feelings of rejection in his seeming priority to take care of the children over there. In his mind he is there with you and your children so you have him whenever you need or want and the children over there only get a part time father, but as you said you can be present with no presence. He is torn in two and cant find a way out of the situation that he has placed himself in. Continue to encourage and pray for him.

  5. Thank you ….He met us after church the Sunday before Thanksgiving and told us he was going to leave ‘for a while’ …staying in a place near our home….condo sitting for a few ‘months’ …

    This has been really nonsense but I know the things that the god of this world …satan likes to pull while dealing with a person so vulnerable.

    My husband is in the hands of the Lord…He is continuing to pay the bills which is noteworthy.He is going to have to come to terms with his situation and pay heed to the things that would be best for his influence upon all who his life touches.

    Being a ‘fair weather father’ is what he has practiced even while we did not realize what he was up to …now the ‘jig’ is up….indeed. Sin will find you out…

    I pray for him and treat him with the kind of ways that the Lord instructs ….

    I am seated in the hearvenlies …spiritually . and I am going to complete the ‘race’ as directed by the Lord.

    I am not so convinced that his involvement with the children of the OW has been a good influence ….she has run the whole show in terms of what those children have been trained to think and believe. The girl who is now 14 told him that she ‘hates ‘ Christians.

    I am pretty sure she has not known any …but that is a separate issue .

    He is not taking a true active part in their upbringing or setting any limits or goals….j

    It is sad …I sometimes believe that he has delved in their lives to their hurt …perhaps had they not had any man in their lives at all they would not grow up thinking of fathers being in and out of their lives as ‘normal’ and that a man and a woman do not have any responsibilities to anyone ..including each other …They have been growing up with the idea that when people get ‘big’ they can do whatever they feel like …despite the way it effects others.

    One selfish , self centered generation after another….in many respects people learn what they live…and kids are even more vulnerable

    My husband has chosen to engage with the children because they are easily fooled …I believe that normalizing sin is a big problem and one many have become visctimized by both in being led to believe it is OK for themselves to indulge and nothing to be concerned about in overall society.

    And people wonder why things are the way they are …they might learn from reading the Bible and being open to hear it …that GOD has warned of the damage that sinful choices cause…recorded in the examples of the OT .

    My husband is a very sad man …but prayer is not to be dismissed as a leverage that is most effective….it is God’s timing …in the meantime we are all growing in the knowledge and wisdom from tending to the walk we all have and our accountability to the Lord.

    The OW still has not contacted me ..and does not want me involved and so my husband has chosen to leave me and our family to take upon himself a minimum involvement with the OC….I perceive it is not working as he thought it would .

    Parenting is outlined in the Word of GOD and it has a purpose in how God designed marriage and parenting to work to equip not just the children but the parents in learning what is formative within ….

    I find it interesting that as intelligent as my husband is …he still continues to lean upon his own understanding and ideas ….but you know what they say ….’doing the same thing over and over …with the same tools …yield the same results…and people wonder why!

    Can’t get good fruit from a bad tree……not that the people are the ‘bad tree’ but the resource and basis for making choices from a fleshly worldview which today is ‘secular humanism’ is not useful to bring forth the life that GOD has for us in Christ Jesus as we are willing to humble ourselves TO HIM …and learn from His Word ….HOW LIFE works!

    So we wait upon what GOD will do …and in the mean time we pray and tend to our own walk as much as possible.

    Hope this helps…you are in a tough situation.

    • Your husband seems to be in a very dark place and imagine at a time like this you of all people are concerned of his welfare, this is where he should be holding you up. Thank God for Jesus and his grace which is all forever sufficient. Lovey let me know how i can contact you so that I can continue to encourage you, and visa versa. The word tells us Ecclesiastes 4:9-12

      • Thank you for your reply . It is encouraging to hear from others who are going through ….and are those who do not just believe IN God but BELIEVE GOD.

        That in itself is our purpose in this life…to allow God and His word to grow in us …faith cometh by hearing …and HEARING BY the WORD of GOD …WHO is ….Jesus!

        Apart from being HIS people are not equipped to live what God intended for us to experience as LIFE for HE IS the WAY , the TRUTH and the LIFE and no man comes to the Father but by HIM.

        I am not sure HOW to give you contact info since this is a public site….I am not on Facebook or any social network other than the internet …I do not trust those venues…

        So …thank you for your continued sharing and prayers …so many are going through this …it is AS the Word tells us …a ‘plague’ due to people not taking God’s word TO HEART.

        Pro 11:21 Though hand join in hand, the wicked shall not be unpunished: but the seed of the righteous shall be delivered.

        Each person living by his flesh fills up his own ‘cup’ of consequences….the sinner who rejects GOD adds sin to sin ,..may the Lord open the eyes of the ‘blind’ while there is yet time…Jesus Christ came to save sinners but there is a need for REPENTANCE ….without which ..they too will perish.

        Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

        Luk 17:3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.

        Luk 17:4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I REPENT; thou shalt forgive him.

        Many of us may wonder what true repentance looks like…How we may know if WE ourselves has indeed repented.

        Many may admit to sin but confession out of being convicted of something hindering our walk as believers then is to be followed by a change as indicated in the Word for what we are to then observe in our hearts,

        Here I have learned some of the fruit of godly sorrows repentance…..what to look for in me and in any.,…

        2Cr 7:11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort,
        what CAREFULNESS it wrought IN you, yea,
        what CLEARING of yourselves, yea,
        what INDIGNATION, yea,
        what FEAR, yea,
        what VEHEMENT DESIRE, yea,
        what ZEAL, yea, what REVENGE! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

        When a person has truly seen the damage sin has done to himself and others there is present all of these indicating a loathing of the sin ….there should be no indication of blaming, excuses, rationalization, minimizing, and no slough in dealing with it and seeking to continue to allow the WORD to cleanse one ,,,by the washing of the water of the Word applied to living life.

        It is the SOUL of those who live in and continue in SIN that defiles, and darkens their understanding and keeps them bound away from the search to be cleansed of all unrighteousness through Jesus Christ and the change of attitude about all things.

        The world view is to change …not just lip service but a daily growing in the knowledge of the Word and then application to our thoughts, and actions.

        We are identified with our Lord through our thoughts and actions …or ‘forehead’ where the brain resides….and then actions ….indicating a new Lord that is NOT our flesh.

        The head and the hand,…thus ‘sealed’ unto the Lord by our daily walk and choices to serve and honor Him.

        When I learned of this adultery I wanted to seek out HOW to respond as the Lord would have me do …for HIS NAME SAKE

        I wanted my husbands love but as time has gone by I see too many who are given ‘methods’ to ‘lure’ their spouses back but the spouse is not facing the necessity to seek the LORD ..They are not turned from within and changed …no transforming act upon their souls

        It will not be long before the same difficulties arise in the relationship because they have no ‘armor ‘ on …they are not equipped to keep themselves from falling prey to their own fleshly vulnerabilities and they have no accountability to the Lord …thus they may maneuver their behavior just enough to escape facing it in truth and then going on to live and authentically transformed life, not to mention their soul is still in peril daily as they have not been born ‘from above’ as scripture instructs we must be….See Jesus speaking with Nicodemus.

        The usual idea in the world’s view of marriage is that of a quick ‘fix’ with new underwear …or some technique…that is as someone once quipped …” You don’t clean a fish before you catch it ‘

        Before a marriage is going to be the kind of relationship that GOD so desires for a man and woman they NEED to follow HIM. Otherwise it is very much like two unequally yoked animals…an ox and rabbit will not get very far nor accomplish much!~

        Never teach a pig to sing. It frustrates you and annoys the pig.

        Mark Twain

        The custom of yoking a mature OX with a newby was so that the older, stronger and trained OX would keep the younger and weaker one making straight and useful rows.

        Thus Jesus would have us ‘yoked ‘ with HIM so that HE will keep us going the way that is right.

        In marriage when two are unequally yoked…either by marriage to an unbeliever by a believer OR as in the case of one being truly born again and zealous to walk after the Lord and the other losing interest in all that is to walk after the Lord and turns to walk after the world, the flesh and the devil ,….we see a very crooked ‘way’ and it gets more and more difficult as the lives diverge into separate ways.

        Despite this reality …serving the Lord continuing is what is useful and helpful to the prodigal …and even can be instructive to the believer who is willing to fulfill their vows to the Lord and the marriage even if alone in the effort.

        Sooner or later the Lord who has a LOT invested in marriage of all kinds is going to deal and our prayers as we believe GOD to do all HE has said from our knowledge of what to ask Him to do …is going to bring forth fruit …

        James tells us that we have not because we ask not OR we ask ‘amiss’ …not according to what God tells us to ask for as His Word reveals to us all of what HE is willing to do according to HIS plans.

        We may work WITH The Lord or …go our own way …but going WITH His plan is much better and less of a stress..

        I am not all that ‘happy’ with all that my husband continues to do …he is stepping outside of the protection of the Lord and remaining there by his own will …sooner or later I am praying he will submit to GOD and be thus able to learn from God

        Presently he shut down from hearing anything from anyone.

        The world tells us life’s purpose is to be happy.

        Happy is good …but holiness is more of the aim of the Lord’s work IN us it seems …and sometimes we must become happy with that ….alone. Until ….the change comes.

        Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

        That should keep anyone plenty busy for a lifetime!~

        Many hugs as we go through this world …in it but not OF it!

  6. BTW…I have counselled my husband to keep all receipts of his expenses as time goes by …just as someone else as kept a chronicle for future confirmation that the father has indeed been involved and made effort and any obstruction to that end was not his idea.

    My husband has maintained contact with the children of adultery for their entire life …and since D DAY at least three days a week if not more …taking them to eat a meal since no matter how much money we have maintained faithfully they have often complained there is little or no food in the house.

    The OW goes to school on a government grant to get a second degree in a second career field….our tax dollars at work ..she does not work . She has visited one of her half brothers who is elderly with no children and has no doubt ‘touched’ him for funds.

    My husband is finally come to his senses about the kind of person she is but he must also claim his own fault in preying on a woman who COULD have been someone he introduced to the Lord had he not been so self centered and seeking someone to use for his own intentions.

    She was the same though….made a ‘deal’ with a married man with benefits laid out and agreed upon mostly focusing on financial sustaining circumstances she manipulated to look like HE was supposed to step in to ‘care ‘ for her ..

    Anyway …despite his active involvement with those kids she signed her son up to have a Big Brother…..this is a horrendous program due to the infestation of men who have other intentions with young boys than it was originally intended to be in that program.

    It is insulting and a direct assault upon my husband by this woman …using the boy and a supposed ‘need’ for another adult male to take over influence upon the boy.

    Even if the ‘mentor’ turns out to be ‘ok’ …it is still an intrusive act to a developing relationship with his father. It takes time and focus away from a growing bond with his father.

    There is not need for this but it is part of the way she operates.

    I was actually hurt for my husband even though he has something of a defeated attitude at present.

    How deadly involvement is with people who are intent upon destroying marriage and family as GOD intended ! ….They will not go without consequences even if none of us do anything …GOD is STILL going to call to account all who proceed without repentance…I pray they will …for all their sake.

    • let your husband be a blessing to you, ask him to fix things for u, show him that he is very much needed in ur life, love has to open z door nd z rest of the healing will come along for both of u. non of us are invincible to sin, thats why z word says…nyone who thinks he stands must becareful not to fall ( 1 cor. 10:12 i think)…even if we think we r strong in christ, we never knw what unfulfilled desire the enemy might use to cause us to sin, so we must always just bring ourselves to God, thinking that nyone cud hv been in ur husbands shoes, including u….i love the example u used abt the old nd new ox being yoked together, in this case God has given u z strength to lift ur husband, altho he has to eventually pull his weight, u can def. help his lost weary heart as u r doing so.
      at the same time recognize the limitations of your adversaries; satan. Satan fears you and the power you have over him through Christ.
      •satan can’t stop God from loving you, hearing you, caring about you.
      •satan can’t linger where he is firmly resisted- ur husabnd will b able to resist satan too, but let the love of God give him the comfort to stand up thru ur love, nd then he’ll slowly but surely take on z word as his armor, as he once did.

      the reason i mentioned sayin let ur husband be a blessing to u is because satan makes people feel worthless thru sin, but God has put it on our hearts when help others, this defeats loneliness, depression, sorrow, hurt, and emptiness. these maybe the emotions ur husband myb feeling nd prolly z reason he’s walkin around head down, and sad…but if you honestly forgive him, (which is in human calculation prolly the hardest thing ull go thru) let him be a blessing to u once again.

      • Dear “ME”

        Thank you for your many good ideas and loving offering of the Word. Indeed so much of what you say has been encouraging as I go through this . My own determination is to make sure that I am laying my self down to learn what the Lord would have me do.

        I am taking care to speak from the well of the wisdom of the Word while not allowing my husband to be the ‘tool’ of the devil he has been so willing to be in the past. He has not been shunned from our home , He has been invited to eat with us but refuses whenever he has to come by for the mail. I have offered him food to take home and sometimes he will . He continues to do things that will ‘strike’ at the hearts of me and our daughters while we continue to hope and allow ourselves to trust that he will do right but I will say that he is not going to do things that he knows are wrong without being told . In the past he said he thought we were all OK even though he knew what he was doing was wrong and that we had an ongoing request that he would be more a part of our family. Now he cannot say he was not aware of this .

        I have done my level best throughout our marriage not to nag, to be generous and understanding and forgiving of his busy ‘schedule” even when he did have a choice where it was not essential that he would leave our family to ‘go play’ .

        Understand since D DAY he has still been a skillful liar and sought only to deceive our family ongoing. My offer to speak with the OW to reconcile was rejected by her and him….To meet with the children …rejected again …I have bought them gifts and encouraged him to stay in some kind of relationship with the children. His interactions with them and my ‘gentle’ approach did nothing but allow him to take more advantage and soon his attachment to the other children became so strong he left our family and now only sees our daughters infrequently while visiting the other children at least “three days a week’

        This was his calculated way of creating a good father relationship with them as before they were born he looked up what might be ‘necessary ‘ for a father to be a good influence upon children …The article he took to heart said that a father who spent at least three days a week and fifteen minutes with a child was doing well and it was good enough for the child!

        That would STILL be more than he afforded our children growing up …

        The whole thing is so messed up and he has become so hardened …yes it is very important to pray for him ..and to do all that you may have suggested …asked him to help around the house…but he has a HARD heart against ANY ‘demands’ that do not please him. He only does what pleases himself and uses his ‘power’ to bait our family.

        I understand spiritual ‘warfare’ to some degree and prayer indeed and study of the scriptures is most important.

        In conversations the sword of the spirit is not just for defense but it is to set forth truth in the face of lies. I believe as I have had many coversations with my husband that he STILL defends himself in his sin though he SAYS he is sorry

        To be able to recover oneself out of sin the WORD of TRUTH is essentially the surgical ‘tool’ of choice by what scripture speaks of …”LOVE” which recoils from contending for the soul of someone is a lot like the ‘seeker friendly ‘ church trends that neglect teaching the whole counsel of the scriptures leaving people with little substance and knowledge of their need to keep on examining themselves by way of being in the Word and asking the Lord to reveal to us our own areas of need for reproof and correction.

        Love indeed is what my husband needs but not the kind he has stomped all over for many years and used people who have loved him ….and NO not EVERYONE will fall prey to the same sin if they are invested in learning and wanting to love and please the Lord as He has called us to do. His love as HE has recorded is to ‘keep His word’ and when we do so and grow in the knowledge of it we will learn to avoid sinning and will desire to keep ourselves from DELIBERATE sin.

        I notice in Roman’s chapter one that the next thing to happen when people reject the Lord and His Word is sexual sin.

        The devil LOVES to snare people in this sinful way because it is so destructive .

        People who love the Lord and their spouses will not continue in sin and look for ways to continue to lie, cheat and steal …sooner or later they will just NOT BE ABLE to live in that …My husband has been skillfully devising ways to cover his tracks for some 33 years with full knowledge of it being harmful and wicked ….NOW he has had that exposed but does continue to try to manipulate and justify his sinful choices .

        I do think there is much need for me to pray for his soul and to practice forgiveness but the state of our society has been very damaged due to neglect of the Word and abandonment of it in terms of proper application to the things we see people now excusing and allowing in the name of ‘tolerance’ and political correctness.

        When the Lord calls for those who continue to sin and reject his offer to give an account I cringe to think of their state and coming situation. What do you suggest is the way to this man’s heart? I am listening.

      • I have an additional comment for you “ME” > Your sweet and compassionate offering of counsel is great …I appreciate this as I said …it is hard sometimes to continue …It is now SEVEN Plus years since D DAY and I am continuing in my stand for our marriage as it is a COVENANT and it was taken not just to one another but toward the Lord.

        My husband moved to housesit so he could ‘think’ ….since then ….5 + months ago he has justified the idea that he will never return to our home …yet we will not divorce….or he is not sure just WHAT it is that he hopes this will accomplish.

        People who are sorry for their sin truely will do SOMETHING toward healing and learning how to deal with the messes they have made…to reconcile , to recompense to those they have harmed .

        Theives and murderers go before judges and land in jail for a period of time….most all of the crimes of our land require such a process. Those who commit adultery await a much worse fate but do not realize it since the losses are often not realized until much later or the things THEY suffer as a result of their choices do not really matter that much to them in the first place…the loss of their spouse …marriage and even family is often just ‘ another reality ‘ of this day and times view of marriage.

        This is all part of the agenda of the devil to destroy man , and society and it is a very subtle aspect of our present day social destruction. I can’t help but view the various news stories of the ‘Spring Break ” chaos and wonder how many of those who are caught up in the frenzy are children born of families where fathers did not take time or care to seek wisdom from God about HOW to be a FATHER …and before THAT …a husband . Those men missed out ! But the children suffer from lack of training , knowledge of truth and how to live rightly….

        The ongoing harm of men who are too proud , too smart and too busy to take time to learn FROM GOD is now everywhere to be seen …sad.

        My husband told early on when I encouraged him to go back to the Word to maybe discover what GOD had for men to learn about husband and fathering …since he WAS at that time growing in the word and HE refused and rejected the idea that he needed anyone to teach him anything ….It was a short time afterward that told me he did not WANT to be the head or leader of our household and from that time one he went on along with many other men to become what we might regard as adolescents in adult bodies….Many are arriving at the age of adulthood but unwilling to proceed to maturation….my husband is 57 and STILL unwilling to put away this attitude…AND society has encouraged this ..to me it is a form of ‘castration’ of men from manhood which also effects their wives , children and society.

        Adam was given the jurisdiction of responsibility to lead, love, nurture and protect his WIFE …and thus his children would be well taken care of ….today’s man has had this information withheld by the training of media and government schools and some if not many churches have neglected to bring the truth to MEN indeed.

        Feminism would have NO takers if men had been meek enough to love GOD enough to study the WORD to learn how to reverse this horrific trend…THOSE men who DO are awesome and are to be appreciated . Men who are maybe not aware of this but willing are to be encouraged as well ….men who are caught in the snare of sinful living sadly often don’t want to hear it …don’t care enough about GOD to lay down their life..as JESUS said .”Deny self , take up their cross and follow me ‘ …it just doesn’t bring in the big bucks so many churches refuse to bring that news…and everyone suffers

        Thank God for men who are willing to be taught of GOD througth His Word and who are willing to learn how to love their wives…and thank God for women who are doing their best to do what GOD tells them to do and wait for results …no one is perfect BUT the Lord said that we are to be perfect as HE is perfect. It is a worthy goal and done IN HIM if we are willing to continue in His word as he has told us to do.

  7. I was conceived from an affair. My mother’s husband agreed to raise me as his own and the truth of who my biological father is was kept a secret from our extended family and friends. My biological father was not interested in having any involvement in my life. It might seem, and the article seems to suggest, that this would be a good way of handling this type if situation. I did not discover the truth about who my father is until a couple of years ago when I was 42 years old. I spent much of my life in therapy because, I believe, that my mother perceived my conception as the reason for the end of her five year affair and whenever I did any of the stupid or costly things that I, like most children, did my father responded in a way I now see as his annoyance for having to clean up some other guys mess. As a result, there was significant psychological abuse that has left deep and lasting scars, not to mention the fact that finally learning the truth of my conception has been beyond devastating. I cannot put into words the impact of their cruel and irresponsible behavior. The only advice that should be given to people who find themselves in this type of situation is that it is unreasonable to not consider the potential for how the betrayal will affect the parents and how that, in turn, will affect how they treat the child.

    • There are never any winners in devastating situations like this. Fr your experience do you think it would have been better for your mothers husband to have not taken you on? You mentioned he treated you as a mess he had to clean up. Did your mother and her husband have children of their own and how have they responded to this news? Has your mother ever apologised to you?

    • Just wanting to say that I think God sent me to this website. I have been praying to be able to talk to a child that was conceived from an affair and get some sort of idea what is the “right thing to do” for the situation i am in. . My story is at the very bottom of this blog. maybe if you read it you wouldnt mind talking with me. i wont go into anymore detail as i have already explained it all in my post. but just know that my husband just recieved paternity suit papers in the mail from a child conceived from an affair. my heart is broken, and i pray daily to do the right thing for my three children, and for this precious child that i have never met…

    • Sharon (or anyone) – I know you have had a hard life, and I am hoping you would be graceful enough to please respond to me as I am in a situation right now where I thought you might have some wisdom.

      I had an affair with a married woman and we have a child. She is 3, going to be 4 soon… and she is the best thing I have ever seen in my life. She is the most wonderful thing I have known. I’m 32 years old. And I’m torn between desperately wanting to tell the husband and be in her life and whether it should just be kept a secret as the husband is a good and kind and Godly man. The woman I had an affair with is too really… I just pulled her astray. She is gentle and loving and would be Godly had I not pursued her so fervently. When I saw a picture of this beautiful little girl, I knew she was mine… but the woman strongly believed she wasn’t mine, until I got a DNA test in November 2013. I can see how maybe it would be better for my daughter to live in this family life, finding out later in life that she is mine and being raised in that home with her two older sisters. So she can feel complete and a part of it.

      I’m torn between breaking that family identity in her mind, and telling the truth and having her in my life some, which I so desperately want her to be.

      My question to you is complicated I know since you only have one experience. But as you are a child of an affair as well, I was hoping you might have some insight. Do you think it is important for the child to just honestly know who she is her whole life even if that means being torn between two places? One of things we both love from our childhood is how we went on family vacations and have little legends of our family and the childhood. I’m afraid of breaking that family culture for her too. I love her so much, I just don’t know what would be better for her. To go away or to raise her. And I feel like it’s going to be confusing to her enough as it is… even though she just calls me Papa anyways… a nickname that stuck because of my beard.

      Any Godly advice is much appreciated.

      • Dear “Man..”

        I find your name here interestingly appropriate. I do not wish to be unkind but to address some of what has caused an enormous amount of confusion in our day and time.

        The culture has made infidelity and illegitimacy a common occurrence. That does not follow that it is right or healthy as we see many marriages broken on the rocks of emotional immaturity and deliberate choices made by people confused and ignorant of what a marriage covenant IS …myself included UNTIL DDAY and then my urgent circumstances caused me to study in further depth what to do in the face of finding out about my husband’s adulterous LIFE which resulted in two children.

        Now being a follow of Christ throughout the past 46 years did not mean I was ‘born again fully mature’ Not at all but with that new birth there was a responsiblity to seek to learn the Truth if I was going to claim to follow Him who IS The Truth.

        In our society relativism and situations ethics has been fed to people through every media and relationship for many generations so that now people do not know for sure where the idea of marriage and even right and wrong apart from what the peer group is doing has arisen from.

        IF you believe in the God of the Bible then there is a great NEED to learn what GOD has given us to study to learn about one of the MOST important relationships of all. When we come to Christ we are not given a clear teaching from man about this …except for a few denominations who have only given it one side or the other of the ditches which run along the way GOD has set it forth.

        Seeing that the marriage is not a social construct as many have been led to think or that it is simply something that the wedding indiustry and some government benefits are drawn from it seems that it is far more deep and serious an act than more and more people are ignorant of and therefore aside from diseases and heartbreak are willing to defie God’s commands to breach!

        Feelings are nothing to base our life choices upon but it is apparent that when we do not know what is true by a measure that is a solid standard we will go with HOW WE FEEL and WHAT we want with an effort to make us happy and comfortable as possible with the ‘least amount of pain’ to others! This seems to be the ‘go to” when people feel a small inconvienient sting of whatever is left of a conscience once sentitive to SIN !

        Sin is an unused word more and more in our world growing darker by the day as on every front we see compromise and arguments that echo Alaister Crowley’s “Do what thou wilt , it is the WHOLE of the LAW ‘ and “Love is the LAW” which are both tenets of the satanist . AND the 1960’s ” IF IT FEELS GOOD DO IT”

        The serpent urged Eve and Jesus with the same suggestions …the responses of each are well worth considering …ONE led to consequences from ignoring God’s Word of warning and information as to what would happen as a result of sin …disobedience…and the other , Jesus took that Word and defended his mind from agreeing to blow off wisdom and truth …and simply do what would please Himself.

        Dying TO SELF is one the most difficult things a believer must come to terms with but it is the most effective way to set aside what we think we know about doing good or being right in the eyes of the culture and our own values and then allowing GOD to set forth the way that we must go in order to live without harming ourselves and others.

        The new birth does not MAKE anyone better at this …but makes it available to learn how to live rightly so that we do not cause others to stumble nor fall into sin ourselves and thus harm our own life , shame the name and ultimately all sinful choices will eventually harm others as we have all seen .

        The God of the Bible said SIN KILLS …it STEALS and it DESTROYS. Those are pretty good reasons to search out this issue and become informed . The problem is that the flesh doesn’t WANT to !

        Thus the new birth is when we are GIVEN a full pardon from sin…past , present and future BUT ALSO ALONG with the GIFT of salvation we are given the freedom to CHOOSE to follow after and live according to TRUTH …ABSOLUTE TRUTH …

        The truth in your mind helps you live in what we find is OPPOSITION to the world , the FLESH and the DEVIL.

        Please bare with me as I did not lay this foundation before hand to preach but to give some perspective on the difficult situation you are not torn by.

        I have much experience in my own walk with how difficult sin is to reject in making choices but Jesus Christ did not leave us without the source of power against the lure of sin…we just may not have availed ourselves to learn about it and how it is our weapon against walking more and more according to appetite and desire rather than truth.

        Learning what MARRIAGE is …and how all of what it entails and has to offer is important …learning HOW to be IN marriage and how it must be protected in our own minds with the WORD to replace all kinds of thoughts that work against fidelity is KEY

        It is called the ‘renewed mind’ in the word and we are told that we NEED to renew what and how we think to think GOD’S word when situations arise in order to avoid more damage!

        Your choices in the past were made in opposition to your conscience which KNOWS that emotional attachment to a married person is wrong and damaging but in a culture that is working against this truth all the time now and has worked so hard to break the family for it’s own benefits …it is most important to get informed about what is going on and then HOW to avoid getting involved to the degree that one FEELS that they MUST go forward with what is sin and deadly because it ‘FEELS RIGHT” !

        The Bible tells us that ‘what seemeth right unto a man leads to DEATH” that is because GOD KNOWS something that few of us know in this time…we have an INVISIBLE enemy that HATES GOD and thus will do anything he can to destroy MAN …God’s love.

        Man dropped the ball in Eden by disobeying the warning and command GOd gave him. Eden and the earth at that time was man’s jurisdiction …part of what happened at the FALL was man gave that jurisdiction over to the enemy of GOD ..Satan ..not God’s ‘equal’ as some think but a proud , arrogant created being whose desire was to usurp the throne of GOD

        Now what does this have to do with your situation? Think about it …man DECIDES to do whatever he wants because part of being ‘like GOD ‘ is that GOD indeed gave man an ability to CHOOSE ….and with that INSTRUCTIONS of HOW to choose rightly so that his life would be as it was meant to be.

        Man lost the connection with having a face to face with GOD at the Fall BUT throughout the Old Testament we observe GOD working to restore man back into relationship with Himself …and ultimately through coming to earth AS a man …living fulfilling all of the prophesy to prove HE was the promised one …

        We can have that relationship that Adam broke ..through Jesus Christ now because in the cross He paid our ‘bill’ in full for all of the sins …of the whole world . TO BENEFIT from that GIFT we need to HEAR about it and then from the time we are convinced that it is OURS we are free to live making right decisions …aka avoiding SINFUL CHOICES .

        Sinful flesh still challenges us but if we offer NO defense by way of choosing to learn and then obey what GOD has had written down for us to learn …then we are still moved by temptations ..GOD does not tempt us but if we follow our FEELINGS then satan who is identified presently …for the time being …as the ‘god of this world ‘ …will do his worst to get us to IGNORE learning how to live free from the power of sin and death that still works in our members….our flesh.

        This may be a bit more than you asked for but I STILL have a POINT To make in regard to this decision which I am sure you will agree will have far reaching consequences in the live of YOU ,.,.the CHILD and the whole family of the woman.

        BAttery dying …be back soon

      • In response to the man who now has a child with a married woman. You need to consider the lives of not just your child but her siblings, her father as she knows him, extended family and so on. These things are farther reaching than just the child but effect EVERYONE connected. Why do you feel it necessary to destroy so many lives especially those that are too young mentally, emotionally and spiritually to understand what this turmoil will mean. This could mean divorce and utter devastation for the other children who could blame your child for the destruction of life as they know it. What could this rejection do to your daughter? Do you think the knowledge of your existence will make all of this okay? Of course in a perfect world all those affected by your actions could/should forgive you and be one happy blended family.

        I think you need to ferverevntly pray before you allow your emotions to make permanent damaging life long decisions.

        Is this really about the child or about you? Because this child is not a single entity she is woven into a family with siblings who believe they are all one. Disrupting this outside of Gods will will have devastating effects on all.

        The child is being loved, she is happy and cared for in a way you have said yourself especially by her mother and “father” in an environment that encourages growth and provides stability and security.

        In my opinion the risk if disrupting this is far too great. And what for? So that you can get a look in?

        Maybe speak with the mother and if she agrees she should speak with her husband. If they both feel to wAit until they know the child and other children are emotionally mature to withstand such a devastating revelation knowing that the family she has will still love and accept her then I would go with what they know is best for her and the family as a whole.

        Pray and seek God. If it is to be he will work it out for the benefit of all of those involved.

      • Hi , I am just getting back to continue my attempt to give you some food for thought about this . I have to agree with “Cheaters wife’ in this situation and I will try to give you some good things to consider along with that she has stated.

        I thought to offer you some examples from people I know who have had to deal with not just your own situation …such as my own husband and his choice to leave the OW and to desert me and our family in favor of being a fair weather father for the two children he and the OW had and kept a long term secret arrangement going …I would not call it an affair because that sounds to much like a party and it was in fact more of an arrangement by agreement to do what they did for their own selfish reason without any hope of actually being a ‘couple’ ….yet everyone has suffered INCLUDING the children they had because the OW wanted to be a single mom by choice which she has proven to not only have planned to not want my husband but only wanted the money for as long as it is ‘due’ for the children …she still does not work !

        This has caused our entire family heartbreak and has indeed long term consequences for all who were ‘victimized ‘ by these two selfish people , emotionally , financially and mentally …not to mention the impact upon them spiritually as even thought our children were raised in the faith through home schooling the children of the OW have expressed hatred for Christ and anyone who claims him and the OW has prohibited my husband from sharing anything as he was repentant and wanting to bring the scriptures into his relationship with the children.

        Basically for all the good aspects of my husband in every other area of life his impact upon those children has not resulted in anything good. I still felt he should be in their lives but I had not reckoned upon him leaving me to do so . He does not have anything to do with the OW and in fact ‘hates’ her …so it is a lose lose for all concerned even though I had told him that he COULD have seen it become a good thing had he opted to remain in a full effort to reconcile and heal our marriage.

        It was too much ‘work’ …yes it IS work ..and I have continued to leave the door open for him and to minister in all ways that would give him hope in this .

        The other children do not have the guidance of a true father and neither do they observe what a husband or a father actually is in functioning with a spouse and within the God ordained order and jurisdiction of what a father and what a marriage is …in fact they are learning that marriage and adultery are really NOTHING to be all that interested in ..combine that with a culture that encourages and normalizes the broken family unit and you have a recipe for two more disastrously ill equipped people entering a culture of self indulgence and self centerness with no real clue of what God and marriage has to offer…they have never known it and have not seen it demonstrated .

        Switch to the scenario my own brother had …He married and his wife was pregnant by him before the vows. After the baby was born she put it up for adoption despite my brother’s objections. They ended in divorce . He married again and ended up not able to have children due to prostate cancer and mourned his loss of having children. Here he is in his early 70’s and low and behold the daughter his wife put up for adoption was found and wanted to know him and now he has been really delighted to get to know his daughter who is grown and has two children of her own. She has had wonderful parents and is a delightful and well adjusted woman with a great family now . My brother is finally enjoying being a dad with this woman and she with him .

        He missed her childhood but in this case her life was stable and she has had two loving parents who raised her well.

        Next today I met with an old friend of mine who was separated from his mother when she sent him to the US from Italy and he ended up adopted and never knew his father…as he said he was a ‘bastard’ but he was raised by a wonderful man who taught him many good things about being a man. He was a Vietnam vet and has no regrets only thankfulness for the Lord who saved his soul later after his military time. He was also a very successful musician and then was an ordained minister having had many broad life experiences along with this deep love for the Word of GOD.

        I shared this predicament with him and asked him what HE would do as having been born out of wedlock and then given up for adoption and never knew his father …He said that in his view that the best thing was to allow the child to grow up and at some future point when she was ready ,..to allow HER in maturity to seek you out . Having information so that she could . My friend said that he would have liked to find his dad but had no information to do so .

        Adults raised in an intact family and especially one that is endeavoring to fulfill the godly jurisdiction of husband and father will be more equipped to deal with this very difficult situation.

        God has ordained an ORDER for a reason that it is protective and healthy for individuals to enjoy a relationship with HIM and boundaries such as marriage has are to protect all aspects…spiritual , emotional , mental and physical. Family is under attack in our day and time and the end aim of the enemy of our soul is to fracture all of the boundaries and order that GOD has put in place for us to thrive and prosper.

        Even with my many years in the Word and following Christ learning of the deceit and betrayal of my husband with this OW has been very difficult to navigate in a godly fashion . I have spent countless hours day and night for the past seven years trying to determine what I should do in response to what GOD has for me to do ….sin is forgiven through Jesus Christ by His work on the cross and it is received by whomsoever will receive it by way of asking and changing their minds about their need for a Savior.

        Rejection of the Lord and the wisdom of His word is destructive to believers as well when they seek to do what they FEEL or to follow the humanistic dogma we hear so much about that a child needs their BIOLOGICAL father in their life at all costs . The first jurisdiction of a man is to GOD and then his parents UNTIL he marries and then it is to be shift in priority to HIS WIFE …NOT children …the children of a marriage are blessed when the FATHER keeps the Lord has his head and then is able to love and lead his wife properly .

        Fathering a child biologically does not immediately qualify a man to BE a father by the definition of PARENTING …as with many other aspects of life ..apart from taking heed to God’s WORD and wisdom a man can do nothing .

        Marriage is NOT a contract ..it is a distinctly important covenant and it is GOD to whom we make our vows …it is HIS created jurisdiction given to a man who requests from GOD ONE woman that he promises God he will take upon himself her care and keeping in all of her aspects. The husband thus takes upon himself representative of Christ Himself and his reputation as to HOW Christ loves his WIFE …the CHURCH

        I would say that is serious business to take it lightly and view the wife as only ‘useful’ for the man’s desires or ego…thus children also are not FOR the USE of a man to feel good about himself or to enjoy their company just whenever he can squeeze them into his busy schedule for a few hours a week.

        My husband said he actually did some study to find out how many hours a week a man had to engage his children in order for them to be well balanced! WOW ….it ‘s interesting to me that he did this when considering having children by the OW when he only spent a very minimum with OUR children and family because he said he ‘loved ” them and he believed they KNEW it even as he was planning to have more children by this woman as an extension of his ‘deal’ that she ‘settled ‘ for knowing he would never leave is wife!

        Now I have given you probably a LOT more info here than you bargained for but I urge you to consider WHY you want to step into this family FURTHER and disrupt and possibly destroy the whole lot of them because you ‘care’ !

        All people belong TO GOD because HE BOUGHT US WITH A PRICE and “WE ARE NOT OUR OWN” …your children are for you to steward and within a MARRIAGE to ONE WOMAN …not for you to insert yourself into someone else’s marriage!

        The scriptures say that Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

        It seems to me that this your understanding of what “LOVE ” is , is lacking in a lot of what GOD has recorded for us to learn…..Adultery does SUCH ILL to all who are not even any part of this CHOICE that people who indulge their fantasies do ….it is beyond expressing to those who are led by Hollywood and various other influences to think that it is no big deal.

        What GOD has informed and warned us of IS A BIG DEAL …sin steals, kills and destroys life and some do more depth of damage …even when forgiven …than most people have any idea .

        I hope you can think more clearly about what is BEST in terms of …who is this guy who has decided that HIS happiness is based upon doing what HE wants so HE can feel good about himself …while damaging further …and trespassing on a covenant made with GOD that is between one man and one woman …MARRIED .

        If you truly are sorry and want to ‘love’ not just the child but the people who have been stolen from by your ‘love’ for this woman …then leave them to heal …and go back to the Lord and seek what HE will tell you about …deny yourself , take up your cross and FOLLOW HIM…..

        Luk 17:33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

        May the Lord help you to straighten out your thinking ….because this world is not going to do that .

        Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

        11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

        12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

        2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

        10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

        11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

        12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

        One cannot buck the ORDER of GOD nor ignore the BOUNDARIES set by GOD especially in relationship with HIM and between a husband and a wife.

        Our society is presently pressing upon people ideas that fly in the face of God’s Word and HIS ORDER.

        While it urges and approves the murder of babies in the womb and encourages more and more people to have sex outside of marriage they lay a guilt trip on men to ‘be fathers’ in any form or way to children …and it is NOT according to the way GOD defined Fatherhood … in practice and outcome!

        Outside of being married to the mother …there is no way to relate to children the value of marriage . SIN thrives as it becomes NORMALIZED …just as families insist upon children accepting a ‘blended family ‘ as normal and accepted it is overreaching the boundaries set by GOD who has ordained a married couple only parted by DEATH of one or the other spouse.

        Today’s generations now are hard put to know anyone not living their life ‘happy’ as they have been solicited and conformed to accept multiple serial ‘marriages ‘ as normal …and those children who are successfully forced to accept a ‘remarriage’ are having their consciences ‘seared ‘ and not given the truth that GOD SET FORTH FROM THE BEGINNING and JESUS CHRIST confirmed as what MARRIAGE IS …….one man …one woman FOR LIFE !

        So…who are we to ‘redefine’ marriage according to our feelings and lusts! ….NOT OK ..and it has destroyed countless lives of people who grew up with NO CLUE of how marriage works and what everyone’s part and benefit is to even BE IN one.

        And people wonder why the world is in the state it is .

        Until people take heed to READ the BIBLE themselves and measure their own lives by it and continue to do so ..and also measure what is said to be in scriptures…we will continue to see what GOD said about HIS PEOPLE.

        Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

        We simply cannot live life any way we FEEL like it in opposition or rejection of God’s WORD which is TRUTH and expect a great and godly outcome. Man is given freedom to learn and then to make choices by what he learns and since GOD has spoken in His Word man is thus accountable for how he chooses to live life….and every one will give an account …ignorance will not be an excuse !

        Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

        The flesh doesn’t like to hear this these days because GOD IS RIGHT! MANKIND needs to get a clue ..GOD is NOT harsh to those wise enough to listen to Him and do what He has warned us to do ….saved yes…but often foolish when we deny God knows what is right and what HIS love is ……and the fruit of a sinful choice is still going to be ‘fruit’ …we learn to avoid the consequences of sin by LISTENING to GOD in what to think and how to apply His Word ….

        I pray you will make a long thoughtful and prayerful consideration of what IS and what IS NOT YOUR jurisdiction here …and for the sake of a stable and godly life …allow that child to grow up within a family that will heal and raise her and when she is older able to make her own choice to meet you .

        In the meantime ..consider HER rather than what YOU feel and want.

        Just my two cents.

      • Another piece of information that came to mind.

        When I was seeking godly counsel I asked a minister whose ministry was directed to the study of men and family that I had some materials during home schooling I found useful and informative. I asked him what his counsel was in our situation . He brought up the truth of how God set forth jurisdictions in various aspects of society. Family was to be under the father’s leadership and his main influence was to be the Lord.

        Under the father’s protection and provision was to be his wife and all children that were of his marriage covenant …aka HIS WIFE.

        Thus his daughters born of his wife were HIS jurisdiction until they married . Now I realize that in the OT those who were found guilty of adultery were dealt with quickly and severely …either put out of the synagogue which was pretty much a ‘death sentence’ since they could not buy or sell and were outcast …or some other penalty …even stoning to death.

        This was so that this sin was not spread abroad as if there were no fear of consequences . It was for the protection of the whole people even to deter a casual attitude about sexual promiscuity…which would not only break hearts and families but spread disease and bring about disdain for God Almighty and His laws.

        Often times when people bring up Jesus dealings with the woman caught in adultery or so said they who brought her …HE was being scrutinized to see if HE would judge her apart from the law which required that a person be found guilty only at the testimony of TWO OR THREE WITNESSES …there were none found so His comment to her was that He did not judge her guilty and actually according to their law HE COULD NOT since there were no witnesses willing to bring testimony against her! HE also affirmed the law in that he told her “GO and SIN no more’ thus confirming that if she did and was found guilty after HE left town she would face the full extent of the judicial system…His forgiveness is available since he went to the cross for all who come and ask …and receive it but consequences still stand .

        In our case the counsel was that since the woman deliberately made her choice to have sex with a married man and then made a deliberate choice to have children by him that she had taken up the jurisdiction of parenting the children and her not being married all of her actions would fall upon HER FATHER who was still over her in jurisdiction …and actually HE was the one who failed to train her up according to the Word of GOD so he would bare the responsibility for her and for those children …NOT what we see in today’s twisted Humanist society …

        According to this order those most responsible for the sin that today is continuing to cause the pain of the those who commit adultery to propagate further upon those who did not commit adultery …aka the spouses and families and any resulting children due to their sinful decisions ….there is not death penalty consequence with mercy extended but they must bare the pain of having brought children into this and deal with that awareness as they have to raise their children in the midst of THEIR sinful choice. The woman having to deal daily with those children knowing what she cost them..

        The married man has to lose his relationship with those children because HIS JURISDICTION and FIRST responsibility under the Lord is TO GOD and to obey what GOD has put before him in that he is MARRIED to HIS WIFE and thus his first responsibility is to HIS WIFE and the children of his marriage.

        He suffers knowing he has placed innocent children in the situation where they have no real family as it is meant to be and to nurture and train them up so they do not enter into life with no knowledge or experience of a godly family.

        Today’s ungodly society has taken it upon itself in a false ‘compassion ‘ driven by other motives for the movement of society further from reliance upon God and thus less concern about the consequences of sin as people may get their support from the government …father’s do not know their purpose or responsibility as husband’s and father’s nor how to function within those boundaries and thus to not have the godly appreciation for the privilege of those things GOD has entrusted to their stewardship.

        The way people have been moved away from regarding the sins God has warned us of even in churches is the consensus [based upon Hegelian dialectic] that if people agree that something is ‘good’ and everyone has agreed to the decision that it is ‘OK” ….my husband said that the OW ‘made that deal ‘ and ‘she settled’ …! Just because people agree to sin does not make it any less damaging ! Just because you CAN doesn’t mean you SHOULD!

        Today this OW gets support from the government AND generous support from our family to our detriment because I did not want those kids to suffer and we have not been forced to do this by courts it was OUR decision to provide for them …yet the actual way the Word has set forth is that HER father should have had to take up the consequences of her sin because it was HIS failure to train her up and to protect her from the weakness of character his lack of training brought about in her life…Of course in generations now gone by this is nothing like what people understand as the function of fathers and it was pretty much destroyed back when men began to read into the idea of headship as if it meant domination …Jesus warned his men not to take lordship over people as the gentiles of that day but that a HEAD meant life giving leadership as a servant. Once again not taking the counsel of the whole Word of GOD and viewing it through flesh brought about disaster and rebellion.

        If men loved their wives as Christ loved the Church and took heed to the directives of the Word in their relationship with women Feminism would have had few to no taker but the world , the flesh and the god of this world has had a huge impact upon even the faith .

        Early in the first century church GNOSTICISM came into the different groups which has been addressed in Colossians …the doctrine of the Nicolatians also is of this sort…where people were led to believe the what their flesh did had no effect upon their salvation so they let it loose …since they could be forgiven ….the other side of Gnostic doctrine was more to abstain from all kinds of things the flesh being thought to be evil …in an of it self which led to religious works in order to gain salvation …both ‘ditches’ worthless .

        The believer in thanksgiving and love for GOD would learn to regard sin and something damaging to be avoided because it brings pain and damage to others …stumbling other people and bringing SHAME to the NAME …thus as we grow in knowledge and wisdom we are to desire to avoid sinning deliberately not to take advantage of forgiveness and mercy to DO sin .

        So taking into consideration the truths set forth of how GOD dealt with adultery in the OT and it is still a ‘death’ of a kind in that it is sin…and sin KILLS ultimately in some form or other…salvation is ours through Jesus Christ so that we may be forgiven and cleanse but we need to be wise in this situation …adding more sinful choices on top of the adultery does not help …as they say two wrongs do not make a right….

        Sinning to try to deal with the children out of adultery does not ‘fix’ the problem but only has added MORE to the situation and harmed MORE people …including the two children born from the adultery.

        It has caused much pain in our own family . My children are godly, forgiving and yet let me share with you ….my son recently married …during the ceremony before some 170 people up on a platform he and his bride were to address their parents with expressions of gratitude …in the midst of my son speaking to me …[my husband did not attend] he broke down SOBBING …with sorrow expressing apology to me for his father’s life long treatment! He continued to sob all the way down the isle and into the dressing room with his bride comforting him! My son is a fine strapping masculine man of 28 ! imagine how those who believe that committing adultery has no lasting effect upon children of adult age …all those years gone before when my husband was involved in this he presented himself to all as a wonderful family man and father ….yet NOW we all have to view those years as false …it is devastating despite the forgiveness and the maturity and faith of our children who were adults when this was discovered.

        His choice to deliberately have children with this woman …even as he and she did not want marriage to each other …is unbelievable ….to our children it is like how adultery feels to a wife …they understand somewhat how deception and sin works through the flesh but to know that their father did not care enough about THEM to avoid this pain is difficult to say the least …it is like a triple infidelity!

        I am thankful my son married a wonderful young woman but there are many things I hope they have learned from what I have been able to share from my study of the Word …for the last 46 years but importantly since D DAY 7 years ago…

        I am still married and this fall will be so for 34 years …but my husband has chosen to live away from me and it is still in the face of our daughters because he has chosen the children of adultery over me and our family.

        To date the people who suffered the most from this have been me and our children ,…ultimately the children of adultery will suffer worse since they are growing up believing that it is ‘normal ‘ for people to live the way they do . When the boy asked my husband how come he never stays over night at their house and how he was the ONLY one in his school whose dad did not live with them. Instead of setting the record straight because he did not want to hurt the child with the truth he said …”You’re not the only one whose father does not live with them …LOTS of kids don’t have their dads living at home ” AND the children KNOW that he is married with a family

        We have never met them due to the way the children do not want to meet us and their mother has turned them against the idea….she is also militantly against the Bible and Jesus Christ …which is no surprise.

        So my husband CHOSE to do all of this while still posturing as a believer …but just ‘not the way I believe’ in his words.

        I observed that IF he believes in the God of the Bible he would turn back to his vows …as of right now that seems it will be an act of GOD upon his conscience but so far he has demonstrated a hardened heart against it …

        He continues to prey upon the emotions of his children being the ‘fun guy” thus demonstrating that in sin there is no accountability …this may be in THIS world but he is leading those children astray for they don’t know any better …

        Children want to please their parents …especially when young …so what child is going to challenge the image the father presents to him? They may fear the loss of the love of their parent ..The father who demonstrates his own TYPE of morality over that of the Word of the Lord is in dangerous territory and leads the young into a life devoid of truth.

        It is a sorrowful state indeed.

        IF your child has a father in the family she is in and he is a man who is concerned about raising her up according to his best knowledge and effort in the Word then it seems to be the best for her to learn godliness and when old enough to be told what she needs to know and make the choice to meet the biological parent….

        From what I am seeing the interaction of my husband has not been all that effective for good…in fact the OW has despised his efforts and my sacrifice for the sake of those kids knowing their father and solicited BIG BROTHERS for her son because she feels he needs the mentoring of a man! How painful this is for my husband who has made a faithful and diligent effort to be there for that child four days a week…This is HER way of ‘loving’ though she has left those kids alone for stretches of time during their young years ….it was all about the money.

        Sorrow for them and prayers that GOD will work things out for HIS glory and the good of all who trust in Him alone

        Retrieving the understanding of scripture in these dark days is hard but we need to think Biblically and then make our choices the best we are able to the glory of GOD for when we walk according to HIS way it will become lighter as we see the Day approaching and we will gain understanding despite how it is opposed to our flesh and the world’s way of compromise.

        Psa 84:11 For the LORD God is a sun and shield: the LORD will give grace and glory: no good thing will he withhold from them that walk uprightly.

        Pro 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

        Pro 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death

        Pro 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

        Pro 21:2 Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts

        The state of the carnal heart is this ….

        Jer 17:5 Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord.

        6 For he shall be like the heath in the desert, and shall not see when good cometh; but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, in a salt land and not inhabited.

        7 Blessed is the man that trusteth in the Lord, and whose hope the Lord is.

        8 For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters, and that spreadeth out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat cometh, but her leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought, neither shall cease from yielding fruit.

        9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

        10 I the Lord search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

        Don’t despair …though we all have sinned and come short of the glory of GOD and there is NONE GOOD but GOD we have a mediator between God and man …the man Jesus Christ the righteous by whom we who believe in Him as Savior and Lord are made unto HIM righteous …HIS righteousness is accounted to us …but to learn to walk in that we are to continue IN HIS WORD and thus we will be HIS disciples INDEED!

        Jhn 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

        Sinful choices made by feelings and the society’s way of thinking does not make anything better ….adding more sinful choices to a consequence of sin will not bring forth good fruit.

        Start fresh …confess the things God’s Word will shine the light upon which are keeping us in bondage and become free of fear to follow Him no matter what men may say.

        May your life bring forth a testimony for the future influence you may have upon a child who will eventually THEN benefit from knowing a godly man.

  8. Dear Sharon ,

    How heartbreaking this has been for you. It is for this reason I encouraged my husband to continue his relationship with the children he had with his adulteress. She has not wanted marriage and does not have any men in her life . My husband says he ‘hates’ her …but who knows. He moved out and lives house sitting presently. He has retreated further into his own private world and has used up both of our retirement savings to pay bills while trying to bounce back from the economy and his past company tanking . He is good at his career but it took a hit from all of the things other people have suffered AS WELL as his ‘generosity’ with the OW and support of the children .

    I supported him throughout his career climb and even insisted we pay support for the OC …and that he continue to be in their lives since their mother is of questionable ability to parent them. I have not been allowed to take any part in that relationship and at first did not think it would be healthy for our own children even as they are older …it is still a deeply wounding issue .

    I cannot imagine what the OC will be dealing with once they get old enough to realize what my husband and their mother did in reality …for now my husband has told them he has a family but they were given the choice if they wanted to meet us …and they did not feel comfortable so we dropped it . Perhaps someday.

    With my husband deciding to leave our family …not with any definite idea of what his ‘time away ‘ is supposed to accomplish I have no idea what he is up to . He does not speak to me except when he has to …at least he pays the bills …for now …but he is having a hard time building his business back up and the duel family bills are taking the toll.

    Our lives are uncertain in this area …and I am using this time to study the Word …I have found a church that is bible oriented …but it is still difficult to start up gaining a social network with so many issues of our family life hanging in the balance…making new friends is difficult though I am a rather gregarious and caring person…The pain of discovery seven years ago is still a daily issue …triggers are fewer and I am busy and reach out to help others…but the loss of my husband’s presence now has put more of what HE is responsible for in our marriage and family squarely upon my two daughters …we are three women going along overcoming daily but still struggling where he was once simply supposed to be here to help .

    He spends most of his time working , working out and sleeping …I am guessing trying to deal with the realization that what he did …a really ‘good guy’ does not do! I think he once flew with the ‘eagles ‘ who thought they did not have to live by the rules others do.

    Our society fosters this kind of daring do …risky lifestyle ..and those who think the rules to not apply to them because they are such ‘good guys’ find out sooner or later that EVERYONE they were supposed to care about suffered because of their excellent ability to lie, cheat and steal.

    At least I think I see that he has remorse or like to think it is real. That he can somehow believe he gets to leave because he can’t stand to see the damage he has done here is not a very hopeful display of ‘regret’ but more of the same selfish behavior ….to me is it like someone running over a person in a crosswalk..seeing the blood and then driving off because they don’t like the sight of blood!

    One thing I think my girls have been learning is that when it comes to a future husband …if they ever get one … to watch out for ‘strong willed but weak character ‘ …a man who does not care about what GOD thinks and does not care about the value of self disciplined morality will not care about those who he can use for his own pleasure..

    That includes the weak OW …she was strong in her persuasive skills but both damaged themselves while hurting children ..and me without any concern …even now they both serve their own agendas and the OC are being ‘played’ by them both.

    IF and when the OC ever come to learn what is true about all this I pray they will have someone strong and loving to help them through …I will be here …but I doubt they will come around …they have been encouraged to somehow see me as an enemy! Isn’t that ironic…those who do the crime blame their victims!

    I am not a victim but I am wounded and I realize I am going to heal ..in time and with effort…I don’t see my husband making the kinds of decisions that will help him internally or eternally at this point …but God is still overall and so I have to rely upon Him to help me and to help me pray aright for these who carelessly use and abuse other people’s lives …it is rather a fearful state for anyone to be in seeing we all will face the Lord one day to give an account.

    I pray the pain you have suffered over the years in this situation will be healed soon and effectually as I know only Jesus Christ can and do as we surrender our pain to Him and walk through it .

    Many hugs for your difficult life situations ….We can’t let the devil win on this no matter what situation we may find ourselves in because of other people’s careless choices.

  9. Thank you very much you have helped me a lot. My story is my husband had a child with someone just after we started dating and it did hurt so bad but I was able to forgive him but what then continued to hurt me was that he felt bad for the child that he spoke to the mother on whatsapp everyday I told him that it was not right and he did not really care he would act like he stopped but when you check his phone you can see that he did not stop and you can even see that some messages are deleted.

    And when we got married he cheated on me a couple of times at one time he lied that he had a baby with this girl but did not know of it so because he knows how I feel about children I encouraged him to have contact this is when we were married but he was still living in Africa and me in England. I was so heartbroken when I eventually found out that it was a lie imagine I would encourage him to talk to his girlfriend I felt so betrayed. I love him so much that I gave him another chance he moved to England and in no time when he started going to work he started having an affair with a woman from his work place he denied it but there is enough evidence to prove that it’s true now it’s seven months down the line and I have heard that that woman is pregnant and it could be his baby I asked him but he denied like he denied the affair . I believe she is and it’s his I am hurting so bad so bad I do not know what I am going to do

  10. Dear Nandy,

    I wish I could give you something to encourage you but as long as someone is responding only to their emotions and appetites they are in ‘enemy territory’ . This is sad and awful for you. Lying opens the ‘door” into the mind as well as any sin . It puts a person in a state of ‘cooperation’ with the Father of lies ….the devil as Jesus identified him.

    This may not help you with hope for your husband but you may hope in the Lord who is LORD over all . As you go to Him , Jesus will guide you through His Word and instruct you . In the meantime keep your own vows of marriage which were made unto GOd as well as to your husband. Two people may not be going in accord but you are still able and responsible to search out the way GOd has designed marriage and life where He has given us all His Word which is above all His name for us to know those things which He has prepared for us to know.

    I am sad for your state and situation and have empathy but we must be strong IN HIM and in HIS might because our flesh is weak and though able to do a lot of things, when it comes to spiritual matters only Jesus is our hope and strength and wisdom in all things.

    The world is full of deceit and cunning fables….the Word of GOD is truth and Jesus IS that Word ….cast your care upon Him and He will direct you …your husband is lost and in confusion and is not thinking straight but for your sake and the sake of the name of the Lord you may hope in all that He has recorded for you to learn about His will found in His Word.

    Prayer for you and your husband are going up …..be encouraged …walk by faith and not by sight and you will overcome by His powerful Word which is His spirit .

  11. I need help. I am in the same situation. It’s been a year since the day I found out. My small family have endured so much since then. I have moved onto to forgiving. My husband wants no part in raising the child. The mother has heavily harassed us since I found out. He broke ties with her after she came to him with the pregnancy after they had sexual intercourse the first time. She threatened to tell the community (he is well-known as we were members of the Chamber of Commerce among other organizations) what he had done. He appeased her for about 5 months until she text him one day for him to reply that she had the wrong number. She found me on facebook to give me explicit details of their act as well as added many extra things that I have come to terms with are lies. She has four other children (one with him being her fifth) and just now filed child support. We did an in home DNA. She constantly posts to her facebook (as well as the FB page she made about ME to harass me) flaunting the fact that my husband gave her life. We have restraining orders on her, her sister, and eldest son. I came in contact with her ex husband who’s new family also has restraining orders against her. My struggle now is accepting that my husband wants no part due to the mother’s instability and drama. He also doesn’t want to hurt our young daughter and our step-son by bringing in another child. He doesn’t want to hurt more family members/close friends by announcing the new child. He doesn’t want to hurt our finances by fighting for full custody. Still then, she’d be in our lives due to visitation, etc. The OW announces on a daily basis that I am the reason he wants no part, I threatened to leave him, etc, etc. It’s hard to deal with when I have actually attempted accepting the child in my mind and seeing her in our future. I need direct contact with someone experiencing these same feelings before I go crazy. I can’t talk to him much about it, he clams up and gets so ashamed.

    • It also sounds as if he is using her behaviour to hide his shame and avoid responsibility.

      You should block her on Facebook, contact with her will do you no good. Avoid all contact where necessary unless it is through mediation.

    • This makes me sad. This woman is clearly unstable. One can only imagine what kind of poisonous stories she will tell the child about it’s father, and what those stories will do to his/her self esteem and future ability to form healthy relationships. Are you or your husband really ok leaving ANY child to someone so unstable? It would probably be in the child’s best interest to be raised by you and your husband. That is if the two of you could find a way to love it for the person he or she is regardless of how it came to be. I can only imagine how hard it would be to overcome such a situation but I think this kid needs YOU and your children as much as it does your husband.
      Good Luck!

      • Kristin,

        I actually had a heart-warming dream about the child and our time with her. We were keeping her for the day and it was joyful. My daughter and step-son were not involved nor met her which was a bit odd and left me feeling weird. It was like she was my own. Then her mother came to pick her up, began doing her “usual” (although we have NEVER interacted in regards to the child other than a DNA) dramatic antagonistic scene. I put my rage aside, shooed her away and kept the child with us. It was magical, besides the scene when the mother arrived trying to take her away. I feel it was symbolic to if we were to gain full custody.

        One thing I had mentioned was that it would be a huge financial burden on us. We are trying to buy a house, get settled in life. We’re like two college students trying to make our way as it is–eating ramen noodles when there’s no food or cutting cable off and sticking with Netflix when bills get too high. We’re both young. I just started college amongst my full time job. It’s hard. I won’t deny that hiring a lawyer to help save this child from her mother is not an ideal situation for us. Her ex-husband is still paying on a $30K balance from taking her to court over their 4 children when he was trying to gain custody for them. He gained custody in 2010 but had to give them back to her because they were physically abusing (by direction of their mother) his disabled 4y/o step-son. I would love to gain custody of the child before she is poisoned with this type of behavior, before she is able to become so low in self esteem that it affects her daily life. But at this time, financially, it just isn’t’ feasible. It hurts my heart to say that. The best we can do is set up visitation. But my husband doesn’t want that. At this point I can’t seem to figure out why. Is he thinking I can’t handle it? Is he afraid our children will be hurt by this (as when they are older, they will know what happened)? Is he apathetic of the child (my worst fear)?

        All insight is welcome. I try not to think about it often as it brings me down, being unable to do anything about it.

        -Struggle

  12. I am struggling with a short term affair that my husband had that resulted in a daughter. He wants no part in raising her as the mother is very unstable. He is afraid to fight for custody in the event that our financial situation is not great. He is also ashamed and does not want to further hurt our other unknowing children. It’s been a year since I found out, and the OW just now filed CS. We have had to file restraining orders against her and her family due to being heavily harassed by them. I submitted a comment longer than this but it says it was not sent. So I am writing a shorter version as the other was rather long. I need to talk to others in the same situation as I or similar. I am blamed on a daily basis by the OW and family that I threatened my husband that I would leave if he had something to do with the affair child which is completely not true. I have even tried talking to him about accepting the child in our home and he says no. I cannot figure out if it is due to irresponsibility or if he thinks by not doing so that he will not add to our hurt. He was not raised with a father in his home and states several times a year that he “turned out just fine”, in which I have to remind him that he did not, otherwise his insecurities in which led him to cheat to begin with would not be present today. I just need people who understand to talk to about this. Can we exchange emails?

    Thanks,
    The Struggle Is Real

    • Thestrugglesreal please post your email address so that I can contact and support you.

      Do not feel pressured or allow yourself to be bullied by the other woman and her family. It us easier for her to use you as an excuse for why this mess did not work out the way she planned. And the child will know this when she grows. And also until yor marriage has healed having te child in your home may not be good for any of you right now.

      Send your email so we can talk.

      • I’ve had to make a new email strictly for infidelity purposes as they google my name and emails to find whatever they can about me. I went for support on another page leaving my real name and email and they found it and made fun of me for it.

        I made the mistake of heavily talking with the OW, I talked to her on a daily basis for weeks, almost begging for information as my husband was too ashamed to tell me.

        I do believe he is using her behavior as an excuse to hide behind in shame.

        My email is overcominginfidelity0@gmail.com

        Thank you so much for your kind words.

    • I tried to send you a message through email. I am in the EXACT same situation. would love to talk with you! i am lost and confused myself! i will try and send it again because i dont think it went through. my story is down at the end of the page if you would like to read it and decide if you would like to talk…praying for you and your family

      • Traci,

        Please send again. I deleted the account due to no response to posting it here. I had to free phone of memory. Please please try again. I hope you are well. You are not alone.

        -Struggle

      • I sent you another email. Hopfully it went through..

  13. The dndmies of righteousness abound but Jesus Christ will be your refuge….even after my own devastating situation which will be so for as long as the OW and the children of adultery exist, I have seen and known the comfort and overcoming action on my behalf as I have trusted the Lord through many trials….kidnapping for nine days as a new believer…frequent challenges as I walked out on faith …deceptions over the early years as I had to grow in knowledge and understanding of the things of God in truth….No matter what comes against the Lord’s sheep HE is still our Good Shepherd. I have come to see the ones that are deeply cooperating with the Adversary as those who will suffer more as they plant sin ..which is a seed and all seed brings forth fruit after it’s kind .

    Sooner or later those who are taken captive by the thoughts and lies which promote and urge them to ignore their consciences and do damage to themselves and others will suffer far more …we may not live to see it but it is assured .

    I pray for them despite my hatred for the things done and the ongoing disrespect for what is right since they have no one that I know of doing so …since they are adrift among a sea of those who encourage such behavior …our world is dark and growing darker.

    I do not say you need to interact with them….in fact they serve the Father of Lies which Jesus told us is the devil so interviewing them will not avail what is true. Seek the Lord , listen to what HE says in His word which is written and recorded for your comfort and strength…People may be helpful and comforting but only the Lord will provide you with the wisdom you need in this time of decision…I am thankful for those who are in the trenches of this kind that we may be fellow comforters as no others may who have not endured these things.

    One of the hardest lessons for me is to keep out of the way of the Lord’s dealing with my husband and all who are contributors in terms of ‘payback’ and that is only for the sake of turning them from this deadly state of the hardened heart that obviously have and the crazy responding they do to the lying influences that promote their sinful behavior through lying thoughts unopposed by truth l

    May you find some comfort and your strength in the One who loves you better than anyone knows how to.

    One thing the devil hates and did not count on was the way believers learn to follow Jesus through the worst stuff that the world may throw at us …we learn to love the way GOD teaches us and that does not always mean to get cozy for his name sake with those who will turn and rend us but to keep our distance , invest in the Lord and His word in terms of time and focus and then do as He arranges for us as we trust in Him and His council

    The Lord does not change…Jesus Christ the same yesterday , today and forever….so glad because mankind is limited even at our best.

    My you find refuge in Him like no other.

    Hugs!

  14. Awk ! Correction on spelling …that was meant to read “The enemies of …’

  15. I’m possibly in the same position as everybody else here – a little different, but much the same. My husband and I met a few months after he returned home from Dessert Storm (’91) and unbeknownst to me he was mid-divorce. He had tried to get a divorce in 1990, but was called up to go to war and the judge delayed the divorce until he returned. So, we met in Dec 1991. His divorce was finalized in Feb. 1992. I found out about the divorce proceedings and whole still being married thing 2 weeks before it was finalized. By that time we were already an item and shortly thereafter expecting our own child. Not married and humilated, but there we were. DH and I both had a difficult time coming to terms with everything – the whole pregnancy was a rocky period in our relationship and a month before our child was born I left him. I take my responsibility in this – we were both at fault. I went home and sobbed my eyes out until the day our child was born, he got drunk and took solice in the arms of two other women – including a one night stand with his ex-wife. (I found out after we were married) The day our child was born was a wake-up call for my husband and he began to turn his life around. (Yes, it reallly can happen) When I found out about the relationships while we were apart I was devestated. Rock bottom, could not hurt worse if somebody had stabbed me in the gut with a kitchen knife – I’m sure you all understand! We got better though, it ate at me for years, but closing in on year 21 of our marriage that whole ugly time in our lives seems very distant!!

    Until last Thursday….My husband got a message from his ex-wife. Her daughter wants to know who her father is and wants him to take a DNA test. We were both just blindsided! He could hardly speak and I responded by throwing up! Imagine reading that message at 11:00pm and not being able to find out anything further until 8:00pm the next day (because DH would never bother her at work – and her drive home is fairly long, he wanted her to have time to relax before he called her in hopes that she would stay civil – she has a tendancy to just blow up) I spent most of the day laying in bed, my stomach in knots. DH came home from work and dragged me out of bed and into my garden – knowing that working the beds would help. He chose to talk to her alone, knowing that the stress of the whole conversation would probably send me rushing back to the bathroom.

    DH’s ex-wife, frankly, doesn’t know who the father of her now 20 year old daughter is and the other – and according to her, the more likely candidate – passed away in a car accident several years ago. (I contend that DH is the more likely father because I swear I could walk by him in the hallway too close and end up pregnant – until I had my tubes tied!) His family wants nothing to do with the girl and won’t even submit to any sort of testing and so her only recourse was to ask my husband to do a DNA test that would settle the matter one way or the other so that she could tell her daughter – yes, this man is your father. The daughter doesn’t know for sure that her mother doesn’t know who her father is, but at 20 and having gotten few answers I suspect she knows.

    That’s where we are right now. DH told her he would call her back in a few days, that we needed some time to ourselved to get over the shock, start thinking clearly and decide how to procede. DH has decided that all the cards should be laid out on the table for the daughter and then she should decide if she wants the DNA test. Given my husband’s family health history we feel it would be prudent for her to know absolultely – even if she chooses not to become part of our family. I’m not sure when he plans to call her mother back, but at some point before Friday he will.

    I am still in knots – although trying to function – for the sake of our kids and my own sanity. We need and crave prayer, but don’t feel like we have anybody here who we can even tell.

    Could you please pray for us.
    1. That this will only bring us closer as a family.
    2. That we find the wise way to tell our own children should the time come.
    3. That our new potential daughter find peace in the results of the DNA test – whatever they are.
    4. That our children can forgive their father and I for putting them in this position.
    5. That I can accept a new daughter fully. I know that my own actions and feelings will directly affect my children’s acceptance and response to this situation and right now, my heart is breaking all over again and I am not ready to accept her.

  16. I feel for all of you….and if I do …I know the Lord has compassion upon all . Relationship with the Lord builds our confidence that when we pray He will hear us and as the Book of James informs us that as those who are born from above …born again …when we pray we must ask according to HIS will ….The Bible informs those have put their trust in Jesus Christ that if we ask according to HIS will believing we will receive the petitions we ask for.

    Unfortunately there has been a lengthy stretch of history among believers now that has mixed a lot of error, fables, tradition , gnostism and spiritualism into our understanding. The Word is that ‘water’ which will set your thinking aright when it comes to anything that we encounter.

    Do not be discouraged if you have not spent time in searching out first the Lord Himself and through Him gain more and more instruction , wisdom and understanding of how you may expect His hand to move in this situation.

    I spent many MANY years in study and walking and STILL …the infidelity and it’s ‘results’ blindsided me ….perhaps I am just dense! or slow to hear….but in any case …do NOT allow the enemy of our souls to discourage you . Jesus Christ came to save sinners and none are righteous …our ‘garment ‘ of righteousness is just that HIS garment laid upon those who come to Him and ask Him for His offer of full payment for sin.

    I know how deathly painful this news is for you and your husband …I also know that our Lord will not desert you in this time of desperate need of His comfort and will bring about understanding as you take this opportunity to seek Him and to search the scriptures for wisdom .

    In the mean time I will petition Him for you to gain access to His peace through Jesus Christ as you lean not upon your OWN understanding or any of the many ‘advices’ offered you by well meaning others.

    This is one heck of a lonely walk no matter how may comforters come alongside you.

    But as you are drawn nearer to the Lord and seek His counsel …be assured He has seen this coming ,,,knows the way he is going to work both IN you and for you and the best for all concerned.

    His Word tells us that though we walk through the ‘valley of the shadow of death’ ..which is THIS world …..HE is ever making the Way …The WAY IS Jesus Christ …and along with everything else He has recorded as the truth of all we deal with ….in that Psalm 23 …He tells us that he has ‘prepared a table in the presence of our enemies’ ….along with all of the other truths that assure us of His preparations to deal with all we are going through HE is our peace…not the peace that the world offers us ….compromises with what is right but HE is OUR peace and that is WITH GOD.

    The world and all of it’s aspects may try to take your peace and may come all around you but GOD has removed you to His side through His Son and none can take you out of His hand.,

    Keep these things in mind whenever you are being mentally moved away from the truths that are SURE and Eternal….God does not change …and Jesus Christ is the same, yesterday and forever.

    Your request for prayer is heard….but more …YOUR prayers are HEARD as you go to HIM and do what HE has requested….

    “Trust in the Lord with ALL your heart …and lean NOT unto your own understanding , in ALL your ways ACKNOWLEDGE HIM and HE WILL direct your path”

    This is not just a cliche offering …I have been dealing with my own struggles through these past seven plus years …as my posts will indicate ….but when we are confused as to what to do with all these external issues ….it may be that we need to just DO what we have right in front of us ..despite the many ways others are bringing pressure to bare upon us to act .

    What is immediate ? For me is was go to access the Word of God and ask Him to help me with my emotions in the face of what was so overwhelming and shocking . I also wanted to know how I should deal with it .

    I did not want to REact to the situation but to wait upon the Lord and in the meantime I asked Him to help me draw from the things I knew of His WOrd but also to seek further what I might learn .

    I did not feel I could trust anyone else ….What natural man or carnal minded person could counsel me properly ?

    It is the Spirit which makes alive, the flesh profits NOTHING , my words are spirit and they are life …..this is the testimony of Jesus Christ …

    If this leaves you a bit disappointed in that I have not given you WHAT to do I am sorry…I know that in the state you are in it would be so great to have someone TELL you what to do ….I did find that the protocol of the proper priorities found in the scriptures for JURISDICTION clarified for me what anyone who cared about God’s order of things was would be useful to make decisions about who is responsible for what

    In my household’s case …my husband chose to go with his ‘gut’ and with the Humanist point of view rather than the order that God gave us for the husband and father’s responsibilities ….In short he rejected the jurisdiction of his marriage and family and placed everyone else’s concern’s before those which he vowed to keep in our marriage covenant.

    This is what many have been led to do since they do not heed the way GOD set up ORDER for the care and protection of all.

    In today’s world everyone is made to feel responsible for everyone else and to come along and clean up the consequencees of other’s poor and sinful choices and actions.

    The Word is clear that this is the result of ‘every man being right in his own eyes’ and ‘putting evil for good and good for evil ‘ in how life is to be lived.

    Gnosticism has also been at work since weaving it’s foul doctrines into the minds of fallen man and so there is a LOT of taking from and adding to the Word in the understanding of people . It actually turns all that God has said upside down and backwards.

    For more understanding of this poisonous doctrine read the Word and take note of what it says will be the condition of the way the world declines away from truth .

    But I am getting too long here …and it has taken me some length of study time to come to see what the condition of my husband’s heart has had to become over time as he turned from the Lord , fellowship among believers who honored truth, marriage and what Jesus taught as what Love is ….His sinful choices opened his heart to things which worked in his thinking to follow his feelings and desires and justified them …just as we see Roman’s reveals of the hearts of men turned from GOD to serve their flesh ….it opens them up for more and more deceit.

    The only deliverance that I know of is to turn to the Lord and ask for Him to forgive and to set the heart aright …to avail oneself to the ‘washing of the water of the Word’ by way of doing what we did at first …returning to our first love , Jesus Christ the righteous who will teach and guide us into all truth.

    I know your heart is broken and you are presently in a state where you just want answers …what to do …I believe you will find those …we tend to become passive in the face of emotional upheaval …I will pray that your heart will find the strength to open to the text and context of scripture ….and to be protected from acting upon the depth of pain you have experienced now ….

    One thing difficult for us sometimes is to know that GOD knew about all of the choices possible we might make and He does not MAKE us choose but does have the solution in His Son and through His Word as we learn what He has given us to know and then even as we may not be fully able HE will take up our cause.

    I pray your heart will find rest as you do all that He directs us to do …in many of our times all we CAN do is to do what we are ABLE …we CAN read…and for me that meant reading scripture ALOUD to override the various thoughts so painfully burned into my brain from the ‘images ‘ that the discovery brought to mind …triggers some call them.,

    The mind is a powerful thing in either thinking what the world , the flesh and the devil devise OR as GOD intended for us to ‘think what is true’ and it is by our deliberate putting on HIS WOrd in our minds and our leaning upon Jesus Christ that we may overcome within while HE has overcome all without ..

    This is not to be as some say the ‘contemplative ‘ emptying of the mind but a deliberate thinking over the Word that GOD has recorded ..to ‘renew’ by way of putting on the WOrd of GOD which is our armour for all eventualities in the ‘foreign land ‘ through which we navigate our way IN Him who is THE Way ..the TRUTH and the LIFE .

    May your soul rest in HIM for He will never leave you nor forsake you and ultimately we live in Him ongoing in eternity …”.For it is written’

    2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

    Jhn 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

    What are the “THESE THINGS” which are said to bring peace here in John…I suggest you begin with seeking these things….

    Hugs for your journey , little one.

  17. Pingback: When There is a Child as a Result of an AffairEmotional Affair Journey

  18. What if it were the other way around?? How would the husband feel if his wife did this. I am sure that there would not be forgiveness and I have witnessed how the church do not require the man to forgive when it is the woman who made the mistake. Then, I here women say that their man is in a dark place because of the child not being in HIS life. Believe me, the man is in a dark place because that other woman is not around and he has not found that another OW yet. Women, please stop swallowing pride because you better believe that your man nor your pastor will not ever swallow their pride.

  19. Thank you for your comments . I think it is true and supported in scripture that PRIDE hinders anyone from going forward in ability to confess sin and seek the enablement from the Lord to repent.

    In many churches today we find that even those who claim Jesus as Lord are not submitting to the whole counsel of scripture . Many in leadership are more concerned with offending people rather than offending God by neglect of teaching scriptural truth for doctrine. Pleasing people becomes the focus and everyone suffers both infidels and seekers alike who may not have studying the Bible as a ‘Berean’ is to be our example.

    In this case we see there is a huge gap in proper dealing and governing in and outside the body that is seen as the church. There are more and more congregations where there is a vague difference between the holy and the profane.

    Without the Light of the Truth of Jesus Christ and His whole testimony of scripture both OT and NT the darkness has continued to grow and work destruction.

    No wonder Romans one speaks so well of the responsibility of all to seek and then to take to heart the truth which both creation and conscience demands and testifies to all.

    The heart hardened by increasing lawlessness [iniquity] undeterred by faint disapproval of a growing number of generations trained by the social engineers dream …Secular humanist government cirriculum which as ‘ruled’ the land since the one room schoolhouse was engulfed more and more by federal ‘standards’, usurping the god given command to fathers to train up their children …when they rise up, when they sit at a table , as they walk along the way , when they lie down …in other words ALL the time bringing the word of GOd to bare upon their own lives and upon the way they give their children the gift of time and example , watchful character training .

    So now what we see as the culture declines is that those who are rising up to more and more places of governing are these …

    1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

    Jer 5:31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?

    Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

  20. Dear Kristen and “Struggle”

    Wow this became really long …I apologize …once I start to write it ‘flows’ until it seems to be concluded in hopefully making the intended points…anyway …here you go …..

    The humanistic religion of our day and time has usurped the truth of Godly justice and right, leveraging instead the heart of compassion of human beings and bypassing the depth of the meaning and usefulness of moral law.

    Twisting and manipulating man’s perception and perspective by FEELINGS and emotions , appetites and desires more than submission to the common sense of God’ s moral laws and righteous instruction. It was recorded time and again in the Old Testament to demonstrate the destructiveness of these kinds of ‘optional’ living maps, but the navigation around faith was found by those professing to be wise and proclaiming the ‘results ‘ of their rational thought apart from godly wisdom .

    The arrogant drama has been useful so often we often fail to take note of it’s being the ‘plays the thing’ in contemporary stages as we have only been seeing parts and snips of the whole panorama as God’s word so well displays for those caring to take the time and submit to being taught from study of scripture with an honest and respectful approach.

    Through skillful and stealth workings in people who themselves have justified placing human reason about God’s revelation , rebellion which is as the sin of witchcraft has for several generations now taken the lead in human thinking and behavior. God help us as we see the seeds of sinful and willful rebellion against God in league with Satan coming to harvest.

    Right and wrong have been turned upon their heads and man is now moved to govern if he will govern at all by his emotional desires to be well thought of among the framers of social order rather than God’s laws set forth in order to protect and provide for godly life which is according to his Plan for man to be relational according to truth and no according to whims and social engineers long term plans for human beings a ‘resources ‘ for the grand scheme of things designed by the detest-er of our souls and the God who created man for his own purposes and glory and man’s good!

    It was somewhat easily done in a few generations to build a society of sand and wind rather than the bricks and stones of the faith that once was held high among all who desired and acknowledges that GOD is and that He is a rewarder of all DILIGENTLY seek HIM.

    Being no stranger to sin and deceit in my own life, victimized by my own reason I can attest that human reason is not useful to determine what is right on it’s own.

    This was a perfect and useful aspect of human design to solicit the ideas that have brought us all much suffering and damage.

    Such thoughts as ‘it is for the ‘greater good’ or ‘it’s worth the pleasure because the damage can be ‘managed’ or what it has been labeled ‘collateral damage ‘ and it has been not ignored but planned for and determined ‘manageable’’!

    Sinful desires always come with some proviso attached that “explains why it is ‘doable ‘ or “more important” presently, for some sort of benefit seen as not just desirable but necessary”!

    Man’s mind is not equipped other than his childhood character training or his own pursuit of wisdom that comes from GOD with an intention to follow after what He finds.

    Many search for GOD in all the wrong places as the old song goes regarding love. If one is persistent and urgently desires to KNOW GOD then the search may continue through the myriad of the maze known as ‘philosophy, psychology and various flavors of religion we have a plenteous array we have set before us or should I say between us and the God who Created us for His glory and our good.

    Our ‘best life now ‘ does not consist of that which we see , taste , hear, touch and smell and possess , but it is defined more by what is not seen, God who is spirit, character which guides us in the way which we should go and true love which does not do damage to others.

    Love that GOD is talking about in the Bible is actually summarized and defined for us by way of the Ten Commandments. Jesus came and fulfilled all His Father’s will and along with that God’s will is recorded that we might also walk in it.

    The attack upon God’s character and His revelation to His beloved creation , man has been active since Eve first considered whether God was withholding something good from her and she needed to take some kind of action based upon HER FEELINGS>

    AWK! There is it …if we read it carefully we notice EVER so called ‘justification ‘ is found in the record of how she considered the Serpents query and what followed in all that she began to think and view about what GOD had said .

    I notice God gave them fair warning along with the set boundary for man to know in advance the consequences of his choice. His being ABLE to choose his loyalty was one of the attributes that God invested in the man according to His own image!

    In truth man was ALREADY LIKE God…so the Serpent’s lie only found a ‘niche’ to leverage further when Eve began to think God was not all that generous and good and that through taking things into her own ‘hands’ she was better off .

    Jesus freed us not from moral law but from the law of sin and death that is sown into our flesh.

    We may not CHOOSE to deflect temptations and reverse the slide down the dogma that is so prevalent in today’s ‘free’ society .

    How doe this have to do with the dilemma we who suffer the reality of a husband who cheated and has children in addition to dealing with the injury of adultery? Well read on if you are patient I will attempt to explain a bit more.

    For women who have no father or husband to protect and care for them they may not also have any way to do so well themselves. Many young ladies who were given ‘everything’ but their father’s time and attention have grown up expecting the ‘crown ‘ without the ‘coronation’ . That is they feel entitled to all that their parents GAVE them , just because they existed and the parents either did not KNOW what the purpose of parenting was or how to do it OR they did not want to spend the time and energy but decided to give that job over to nannies or schools ,who were ‘experts’

    This whole idea played upon the self of people. The more able to provide the less there was felt the need or even the benefit of the ‘do it yourself’ parenting that GOD commanded , ordained and would have provided for a father first and a mom second.

    Mom’s still feel the pull of motherhood despite the opposing push of the society that wants to benefit from the second income which originally was the intentional campaigned that those who benefit from increased INCOME TAX felt obliged to bring to bare on the stay at home mom …or as it was known in the past …the wife and mother who was also a homemaker.

    God forbid that homes were made more secure and children raised with a character that conformed to moral law and trained in courtesies that would convey value to all others!

    The ultimate ‘benefit’ to society would be ‘children who would become a population of people ‘easily led’ for the use of the ultimate world of tomorrow. No matter the wreckage along the way as people were never intended by God to be used and molded by any power other than His own benevolent care for our own developing gifts He invested in each individual.

    Children in many young women’s minds have become their ‘ticket’ to a life of free ‘income ‘ either through the courts who level huge ‘penalties’ upon men for their ‘fun’ . The conscience does not dictate what the courts will handle apparently . God has called for human governments and laws where man refuses to submit to His Lordship.

    Man who was supposed to submit to being trained by adhering to God’s laws and wisdom is now under increasing efforts of man to control man.

    Just laws will keep boundaries in tact and protect what God has ordained, but the age of ‘reason’ and various other powers that have come into play more and more in the later century have brought about manipulative and lucrative laws that are mostly seen in the past in governments of man

    Not unlike Egypt under Pharaohs hand …the citizenry considered “slaves” to those who have risen in a ‘demon-cratic’ society [rather than a REPUBLIC which our own was to be fashioned ] corrupted beyond most people’s imagination or willingness to face the truth.

    Man apart from GOD can do nothing but react to this emotions and appetites and other people’s influences and ALL being influenced by the god of this world who hates GOD and wants to hurt the most precious to GOD ..His children!

    The humanistic , social dynamic works to create dependency upon the laws of man rather than encourage strength of character reliant and obedient to the laws of GOD

    God defines love as this “ THE LAW IS LOVE”

    Satanist confessed that Satan’s definition of ‘love’ is the opposite “ Love is the LAW” in which ‘love ‘ is actually human emotion apart from self governing by moral law.

    Law is very much a part of our human understanding as the basis for all sensible and survivable living. Moral law keeps boundaries within which we may live that dream of ‘pursuit of life , liberty and the pursuit of happiness’

    The original thought was not ‘pursuit of happiness’ which as a ‘law’ has brought for any number of disasters as people believe they have a “RIGHT” to whatever makes them happy at the moment regardless of consequences to self , spouse , children and society.

    This tweak of the original thought of the framers of the Bill of rights was very useful to the destruction we now see all around us and even up close and personal.

    The original was ‘Pursuit of life , liberty and the possession of property’ since the view at the time was that if you had a right to property ownership you COULD pursue and sustain life and liberty from tyranny!

    The only place ‘happiness’ is found in the scriptures is ‘Happy is the man whose God is the LORD”

    Humph…different than many like to chant “Doesn’t GOD want me to be happy/” as their excuse to permit themselves to pursue some sinful choice!

    Now I know child support seems like it is not just a necessity but it is the worthy privilege to fathers and the right cost to those who impregnate indiscriminately , in iniquity or law less ness which is what breaking God’s laws is called.

    To live IN and BY “Iniquity ‘ is to live without any regard for the LAW of GOD . In society when a person breaks the laws of man , he risks getting caught or apprehended and then goes through a trial and conviction as ‘payment’ for his crime.

    In adultery there is presently NO pursuit or apprehension of the perp ..except in the case of child services and a court ordered support determined by the state. All moral crime of it is only determined by a court of law IF there is a demand for a divorce by the betrayed and even then the betrayed is the most likely to suffer the loss of all things that were vowed at the time the MAN asked the LORD before WITNESSES for the right and privilege to take on the full care of the woman GOD bought with a PRICE of His only begotten Son’s blood.

    From birth the child of a marriage is under the FATHER’S care and provision . In marriage there is even a provision for children born where only one parent is a believer ‘else were your children ‘unclean’. This does not indicate that the children are ‘saved ‘ because of the believer but that they are protected by the legitimization of the child within the covenant of MARRIAGE.

    Now it is harsh to regard the way in which the justice of GOD was carried out in the Old Testament until we recognize that indeed the cause for such ‘harsh’ and ‘swiftly ‘ carried out conviction was not done ‘out of order’ .

    All convictions of any violation of God’s laws and man’s accordingly set up by God’s model where only found if there were TWO or THREE witnesses . Eye witnesses preferably . when we see the religious leaders of Jesus time trying to ‘catch him’ by bringing the ‘woman caught in adultery ,in the very act’ they hoped to ‘catch him’ in a legality .

    In other words we see Jesus call for witnesses, since none came forward based upon the law then she was not convicted nor punished . There was no required cause to convict her of adultery.

    It was not just a ‘compassionate ‘ Jesus we see in this but one who was upholding the will of His Father in all areas . The religious leaders were “foiled’ again.

    The sins we do or permit here in this lifespan may not be dealt with here justly but we will stand before a JUST JUDGE and as Jesus told us it is HIS WORDS which will condemn or justify us .

    He IS the WORD which took upon Himself the just conviction of those who sin but take Him as their substitution for what we justly deserve . Even if we lived as ‘to the mark’ as the Scribes and Pharisees of the time of Jesus ..those who were really strict and even quite ‘successful’ in keeping of the law ..their efforts COULD NOT erase the genetic condition which Adam brought upon all mankind , born of Adam …in need to be born again of INCORRUPTIBLE SEED ..the WORD of GOD who is Jesus Christ.

    What does this have to do with your and my situation .

    It is so hard , especially for Christians to take to heart the way the Lord’s Old Testament treatment demonstrates His view of allowing people to sin and ‘get away ‘ with it .

    First of all the convicted adulterers were put to DEATH to demonstrate that idolatry which adultery demonstrates , putting obeying the flesh before obeying GOD . Left undealt with in a very pronounced way left people to think it was not so bad after all. Aside from shame people began to think it was nothing all that bad and it felt good so why not indulge!~

    In other words death was to keep it from spreading like a ‘plague’ which is just what GOD regarded it as . The testimonies of whole societies whose destruction resulted from this ‘small ‘ offense are many. Sodom, Gomorrah, Babylon, Corinth, etc ..need I say more?

    Godlessness RUINS good EVERYTHING . It leaves Nothing untouched by it’s corrupting and deadly influence , within the conscience and without the whole of society.

    Children born out of wedlock IN TRUTH actually are the responsibility of the WOMAN and ultimately he who is to be responsible for her UNTIL MARRIAGE is HER FATHER.

    So then the FATHER of the woman is the one who is to take full responsibility for the actions of his daughter .

    Yes THAT is a really different view than in today’s world

    Part of the encouragement for men to think they CAN have sex without any restraint …and in some minds they think they MUST is that it works to destroy the family .

    In all of the beneficial ways family was to strengthen the society …sexual sin destroys it .

    Lets take a look at the immediate victims . The Lord who is the lord of the faithful wife and the testimony of her life and marriage to those who believe that her testimony is truth.

    Those who view the husband’s behavior and know what he is up to hear the testimony of the wife and tend to mock and snicker about her naivety .

    It undermines others determination to remain faithful who may not know God and all that marriage is indeed good for in terms of the way challenges are useful to grow mature and develop a man’s character.

    Through having children the woman who does not value herself and fears or detest working to support herself take her pleasure among any man willing who appears to have the ability to support her and all she has to do is trade easy sexual pleasure access.

    Her desire and need may NOT be sex or even affection but a perspective of ‘survival ‘ and her upbringing amidst the material goods may have caused her to see herself too good for the men that MAY want to marry her . They may not ‘qualify ‘ in many of the areas a man who has those defined attributes in her mind as a suitable lover , so she holds out and uses her charms and sexual attractiveness to gain income …not in anything as ‘crass ‘ as prostitution as she defines it but in being a man’s ‘confidant’ and lover.

    If she tires of this ‘routine’ that begins to develop to be more and more like the ‘wife’ she will make the next ‘move’ to get children by whom she may get more money or if she is left to go to court , the system will come to the ‘rescue’ with welfare but not before taking the finances of the family as a just ‘recompense’ by man’s opinion through laws of social justice for the man AND his wife and children to pay indefinitely ‘through the nose ‘ to the OW and any children she may be able to PROVE are his.

    Now this is not intended to say that the betrayed wife and even the cheating husband do not and should not care about the children . I am just bringing to the table the way man turning from GOD and men who desire to undermine the godly context of sex and childbearing have worked things to bring about more and more chaos .

    The people who PAY are those who did not do the crime!

    The child born of adultery is , as I said , in terms of the order of father’s responsibility falls upon the father of the adulterous woman.

    Yet we see the heart of a father for his illegitimate off spring often times more TIED to the child of adultery while his ‘care ‘ for his children of the marriage goes unaddressed and basically disregarded .

    This may not be the case for everyone but in my view and through study of the scriptures and many and varied testimonies of people dealing with this , the sympathy and effort is more and more toward what is NOT according to the way GOD speaks upon the subject and more and more toward continued destruction of law and order and it’s intended purpose for God’s glory and man’s good.

    The emotional ‘hook’ is in the woman betrayed since SHE is the faithful caretaker of her own children. She may even be somewhat sympathetic toward the other woman ….and of course concern for the welfare of the child. YET the concern for those who are NOT a part of this detestable crime are still and should be the first concern to be addressed.

    I believe you mentioned that what of the children of the marriage. The husband who remarried and had a young child had to relinquish his own children born of this detestable woman because of their not having been trained up to be civilized . It is no wonder they may have been rather disciplined ‘challenged’ with the whole mess that they came out of .

    The divorce from the first wife who was so detached or damaged or perhaps wickedly intent was not helpful to the raising of children with a sense of moral rightness.

    Whatever their difficulties they had to suffer being sent back to the mother who was viewed more as the culprit which indeed her own actions and abandonment of moral training of her children did advance their behavior.

    The man put himself in the situation of having a NEW wife and a new baby while then wanting to protect his children from his first marriage from the woman HE violated. He left her ..I do not know the reason he left her but the vow of marriage is for LIFE and he was ordained to DEAL with the marriage he had …if only for the sake of the children, May I say that IF his wife was unruly or committed adultery it was up to him to examine himself to see if he had done all that GOD instructs a man to do as HEAD UNDER the HEADSHIP of JESUS Christ.

    Apart from that it is a REALLY tough row to hoe in life with not submitting to the wisdom marriage needs to function in.

    Even as the hurt spouse I want to say I view women with a sour look and a down cast appearance and even a hardened look differently and wonder what happened to them to cause them to be thus.

    It is given to MAN to care for , protect, and provide for women and children and when a husband HIS WIFE FIRST before anyone else. ANYONE ELSE including thechildren of the marriage covenant.

    Now in our gender neutralizing society this is a lost piece of information and knowledge.

    It works against the man’s pride and independence to think he is responsible for his wife …in any way except money! So things get twisted and messed up. Neglect of all the ways God says to love his wife and it IS the MAN who has many more instructions in dealing with life and his wife and family than the woman BECAUSE GOD knows HE NEEDS them

    The various prohibitions are not just ‘don’t do it ‘ but it is BECAUSE it protects the man AND his family and results in a strong nation!

    If you have a moment and can go watch “MONUMENTAL “ there is a really amazing statue called ‘Justice’ that is discussed by Kurt Cameron with the guide . It is a statue meant to remind our country of what we are founded on . Quite detailed and invested with symbolism of what we were founded upon lest we forget.

    It is true …”.If a nation ceases to be good it will ceaste to be Great.” This is true for human beings too …but not the way the humanist society defines ‘goodness’ …it is defined by GOD and first of all in line is to ‘fear GOD ‘ and ‘do what HE has commanded’ …in medicine I believe they nailed it by saying ‘FIRST DO NO HARM”

    In the situations we are in we are prone to do what we feel we must or what is good or even what is “best for the child’ but the basis for making that call is generally not God’s word and His ways but the various emotions and idea of our carnal minds and that of society apart from GOD.

    “Following your heart’ leads to trouble because it is not understood that God has told us that the heart of man is deceitful and desperately wicked. Natural man does not know this ..but the WORD when taken to heart will expose all that we have thought was ‘good’ and ‘useful ‘ compared to what GOD is and defines and we find it is a ‘beam ‘ that we did not see as such directing our ways into further deceptions laid across our path.

    How to deal with all of this ? I pray , since my husband is still caught up in his emotional attachment to the degree that he has no sight to see what he his ‘good works’ are doing to me and our children , though they are adults now.

    People think that ‘everyone will adjust’ but for those who desire to live godly , ‘adjusting ‘ to what is sinful is not an option. Becoming conformed by compromise to go along and get along does not do anyone good in the long run.

    In truth , my husband being a ‘father’ to those kids is really NOTHING like what is called for in a parent and in a father in particular. He does not want to hear or read what it really involves because he actually does know but does not want to do what is right.

    He is a man of convenience to HIMSELF and as such the devil and the society of those who serve him leverage his decisions away from what is truly right and good. Those children are being raised to look upon the lifestyle of their mother and the choices of their father ,my husband as nothing they need to avoid . If anything they have learned that there is nothing wrong with defending sinful behavior and the schools they attend further encourage and embolden the right to sin in our world .

    They cannot miss what they have never had but perhaps the way that is better put is that they cannot identify the ‘lack’ within their lives because they have never been given what is the truth about anything.

    I am not given the option to engage with them and for the sake of my own children I will not take from them the last aspect of their godly upbringing to do other than pray and pray for the Lord to bring someone they WILL be able to receive His love from into their path someday . Thus far they have learned to hate Christianity as their mother has ‘preached’ most ardently and their father has feared to speak of since their mother ‘prohibited him’ from bringing anything Biblical up to them.

    Once several years ago he did give his daughter who was about ten at that time a chapter of Proverbs to read and he said he would read it and they would discuss it together. When their mother found out she blew her top and told him not to give anything Bible to the kids. They were no longer engaged in adultery but he ‘respected’ her wishes.

    This is a wimp out from what a man and a father is to be and do . She in truth ‘castrated’ my husband in so many ways …but he seems to want to punish me as he is humiliated by the way he ‘obeys her’ …He also was again humiliated by her when she signed up a stranger to be a companion to her son who my husband was spending three to four days a week doing things with him..

    I went to see what Big Brothers has been dealing with and sure enough, according to the ‘agenda’ to infiltrate gender specific venues , especially where children are found …there were cases dealing with pedophilia in this organization.

    This was not about her son ‘s lack it was a slap in the face of my husband’s right as a father to train and protect his children.

    She no doubt thought this a ‘good ‘ idea but it put her son in danger …and it denied his father the place that was his desire to be in the children’s lives while staying married.

    I continue to stay in the Word and do what I can learn to do as I am endeavoring to follow the Lord no matter what the opposition may be doing in our society.

    Laws against the laws of GOD are growing daily.

    It is part of actual prophesy but those who follow the Lord will be kept and safe despite the enemy of our souls intentions .

    I hope you will find that the Lord will make a way for your to come to a godly and worthy conclusion in your most difficult situation.

    Hugs for your trial.

  21. So thankful that I found this website. ocotober 2012 my husband had an affair with a woman in another state (he was working out of town for 6 months) the way i found out about the affair and the baby was devastating. He came back home assuming to move on with his life..she knew he was happily married. He was well aware he had made a horrible mistake and immediatelly I could tell that something was heavy on his mind. on thanksgiving day she sent me a video that she had taken of her and my husband having sex (he did not know it was being recorded) and also sent me a picture of her sonogram and told me she was pregnant with his child. We have been married 19 years have 3 children of our own 17,15,11. This woman has 2 other children by 2 different fathers. This seems to be a game with her. Neither of their dads have anything to do with them. This womn is crazy, destructive, she harrased me to the point that i have changed all of my contact information trying to get her to leave me alone. Im not posting this to discuss my husbands mistake. He knows that he made one, and we work hard everyday to rebuild our life together. We love each other beyond reason I believe. I knew when I married him that there wasnt anything we couldnt overcome. I have and will continue to stand by his side in doing what is best for our children. Ou 3 boys do not know about the affair or the baby. Although she has tried several times to contact them and send them pictures of her (the baby is a girl) and i have been quick enough to delete the mesages before they saw them…Here is my problem/question and Im desperately seeking advice. My children have a happy, loving home. They know that everyone makes mistakes and that we love each other unconditionally under this roof, but HOW WILL THEY EVER FORGIVE THEIR FATHER FOR DOING THIS? How will they understand? Is it fair to destroy their lives over something that they never asked for? I realize that that precious little girl didnt ask for this either. My heart break for her. My husband just recieved paternity test papers in the mail. Never has it crossed his mind to not support this child financialy, but how is he supposed to be a part of this little girls life under these circumstances? This woman is destructive, she takes pills all of the time, doesnt have a job, lives with her parents ( although they kick her out or have her arrested all of the time) . my point is this~ my children couldnt ask for a better father, and this little girl deserves to have him in her life. I wish the mother would just let us have custody of her. we could give her such a wonderful life, and i would loveher like my own, but shewont. she told me that all she needs is his money, and that her child would never leave the state she lives in and it didnt matter what any court or judge says…i worry about bringing such a crazy woman into the lives of my children. I makes me sick to think that they would even know who she is. Much less the drama that she will bring to their lives.Its my job as their mother to protect them from things like this? Loving this baby was never out of the question. I would love it like my own. As crazy as this sounds ( and please dont ridicule and say mean things to me) My heart breaks for my husband sometimes when I know he is struggling with what to do. Or when she sends me pictures out of the blue of the baby? (my husbandf has no communication with her) He made a mistake, but is it right to ruin my boys lives? Ihonestly dont see how any good will come from having anything to do with the baby. Other than~she will always know we are here. Always have a place to call/ go when her mom acts crazy…Not to mention. what kind of life with this little girl have? flying back and forth from our “stable, happy, home” to all the drama that her mother will bring to her life? It sounds stupid to say but, I know we will never get full custody of her. Is it better for everyone if she doenst even know we exist?? Until she is old enough to ask. At this point I feel like whatever I told my husband to do in this situation he would do. “he made his bed” type attitude and his heart would break never knowing his daughter, but he would walk away if thats what me and his boys needed from him. So i try really hard not to push my opinions on him. Please help..I feel like things may be spinning out of control..

  22. Traci,

    My heart breaks for you. It is astonishing the way some of these OW take a step even beyond the “usual’ if it can be put that way ….God help our world when anything like this becomes ‘usual’.

    It appears that she is not just unhinged but in a state of complete lacking in any kind of character upbringing to know what it means to love. This is a sad legacy of not just her parenting but the society which has been hard at work to destroy all that God has put in place and order for mankind to enjoy .

    The continued choices to disregard any moral compass seems to have left her with what Roman’s chapter one refers to as a ‘reprobate mind’ which is a mind devoid of good judgment.

    I find it very disturbing to note that more and more women are willing to do deliberately such destructive things to children they say they ‘love ‘ and ‘want’ and willing to do anything to get them, but it appears that they have found a way to the money cow they cannot attain any other way.

    When I was in college my mother was promoted to work in the D.A.’s office as an investigator for the Paternity Unit. Her job really opened her eyes to the kinds of situations you describe , women who intentionally get pregnant in order to get money …from the state or from the ‘john’ …and sometimes they commit welfare fraud and collect both….for a time.

    The fact that this woman’s parents have no ability to deal with her indicates that they too have no real grasp on the kind of things God provided for parents to learn so that they can raise up children with a conscience that is trained to be sensitive to things that will lead them away into the traps of this world .

    I am not intending to ‘preach’ here but I set about seven plus years ago to find out WHAT has brought abut such a mess in the several generations we have observed has gone down so fast….or so it seems in comparison to the various centuries before where vast sinful civilizations did not have the access to such wholesale mind influences that we have had since a little over one hundred years.

    I recommend that when you have the time and interest to take a look at some of the materials that incude much of what I have found elsewhere over the past several years but are concurred on the site I wil share with you here.

    http://www.crossroad.to/text/articles.html

    I asked my two adult daughters if they cared to comment upon your situation….No answer as yet …It is a lot of responsibility to counsel anyone in your situation.

    I know that in the Old Testament the culture was ordered according to moral law even before it was written in the ten commandments. The families taught and trained their children, to learn the moral law and live accordingly. If a woman was not kept from violation her father was held responsible and the violation meant severe judicial action . It was so to protect others who were weak in the fact of the tempations to act upon lust and other fleshly desires apart from the safety of self governing to protect the marriage and the family. It was to keep others from being influenced to take sin lightly …not because God was the supreme ‘kill joy’ but because sin hurts , harms, destroys and eventually not only KILLS but it can take one into eternity without the Savior who has taken the judicial sentencing that a Just God must exact upon sin.

    Being born into the world that is at present subjected to the ‘god of this world ‘ who is NOT restrained from using man’s ignorance of his condition ‘under condemnation’ due to Adam’s disobedience’ …and once a person acts with knowledge against the moral law he is then OPEN to more intrusions by the enemy of his soul. The devil hates the God of Creation so much the best way for the enemy to ‘get to Him’ is to take God’s creation , man , captive by way of luring him to sin and then to continue to ‘keep’ him with guilt and self condemnation….and if it is not dealt with by that person coming to know Jesus Christ as His Savior then that person is going to continue on in darkness . Without Christ there is no escape from deception ..without knowledge of the Truth of the Word of GOD there is little equipping to identify deceptions which are the hallmark of this age.

    The point I hope to make here is that the woman is ‘taken captive ‘ mentally by thoughts and influences of this world which she has not resisted nor perhaps known how to resist , nor cares to resist. She has lived her life by whatever she is able to do to get whatever she may believe she can. There are also influences and ideologies that believe in destroying the status quo as they see it , believing it is ‘good ‘ for the progress of what they believe is going to be a better ‘age’ , one that is ‘held back’ by those who are living according to moral law and order. Biblical Christianity is ‘enemy number one’ to those who are deluded into thinking they are part of the cutting edge of ‘evolution’ …it will eventually lead to complete destruction of the order which we have known and lived in , even if not completely …for any of those who have endeavored to base their lives according to the way the God of the Bible has put forth for any and all willing to receive it .

    In the Old Testament record it was the FATHER who was responsible to train and teach his family. He was responsible to protect and provide for his daughters UNTIL such time as they married . IF he died before they married or they did not marry it was up to the kin to do so.

    Adultery was not tolerated and in some of the records of cities where sexual sin abounded it was reproved and if it was not eradicated by confession and turning from it’s practice …it was dealt with severely.

    In our culture it is not dealt with and not even condemned for the most part but encouraged and applauded by the social engineers with their aim to deconstruct . People adrift from fragmented families end up in the palm of the hand of those who wish to control and redirect society.

    I am thankful that your husband has repented and turned to deal with the devastation that his choices have caused you both. I don’t know what he is doing to make the kinds of changes to deal with the consequences of his actions but even when there is forgiveness and working through marital issues …which marriage has whether sexual sin has occurred or not …there is still a lot of necessity for you both to hold a united front and effort for the sake of your marriage and family.

    I don’t know if you are followers of Christ but that is one necessity to make a solid unity IN HIM and through continued shared time in learning what the Lord will teach you as you read together and offer up your scars to HIM who is most able to work with you .

    I read that this woman has attempted to contact your children. It sounds like you have little ability to keep this a secret from your sons . Sadly this is now part of the reality of your household . It is shattering I know . My husband did not want to tell our children. We had been a family that I had believed was solid on the things of God and how we were to function but my husband did not want to learn what he was vulnerable in as all men are nor to learn how to really love and enjoy his wife. He rejected wisdom about where to go , who to choose to make close friends and simply refused to allow that any restrictions should be upon his life choices. He rejected any kind of close relationship with people who cared about such things as God , the Bible and family and all that this gift was FOR HIM!

    In any case he did not want to tell our children but I felt that for HIM to be able to gain some sense of respect from his children even in the light of this terrible revelation HE had to be the one to tell them .

    At that time my children were older than yours and as I said they had been home schooled and had their own relationship with the LORD and knowledge of the Bible . We were not part of any church at the time so our faith was built by less exposure to a single church , this was something we tried to do over the years but our many moves made this difficult and just after yet another move to a new city …is when I discovered the Adultery of 14 years and two children …So this was a bit different than your situation as my husband already had a relationship with those children …at D DAY they were 3 and 7.

    Our children made me proud but it was heart breaking …we had to actually wait for my son to come home from college to tell them all face to face. My two daughters sensed something wrong but I did my best to keep the discovery until my son could come home. My kids had such a close relationship with me that it was apparent that SOMETHING was going on and I did not want them to think I had a terminal disease or something.

    My husband told them reluctantly while I sat by …it was the worst and most difficult thing for him to do ..and it was unbelievably painful for our children …my son, then age twenty …broke down an sobbed…my daughters were quiet..ages 16 and 22 …I was proud of them then and now …their relationship with the Lord held them steady while I don’t doubt that the revelation from their father was something so hard to describe in the ongoing dealing we have had to have .

    He worked weakly at dealing with the destruction between us …one thing I know is that many therapist deal with adultery as if it were marriage counselling which is not what is needed at the time …maybe later when the adulterer has been addressed directly about what he needs to learn and what the betrayed spouse needs from him .

    My husband did answer questions but he was not willing to learn what is the way that the damages in my own heart and the hearts of his children really needed his first attention.

    After two years of what I thought was him working to deal with it …he confessed he had reconnected with the children …something I had asked him if he needed to do that ..and he had denied it …but this new confession was not a good thing…he had lied AGAIN ….and stolen MORE of our financial AGAIN …more than the most generous amount we had both come to agree upon …and though he had not wanted to put us in jeopardy and he did not want a relationship to go on with the OW ..the deception and the manipulation of the OW [and the spirits working in her and through her] upon his mind …eventually led to him not being
    able’ to continue living in our home .

    This has been very difficult since he has turned what he did into even MORE devastation.

    Recently I attended a marriage celebration for my son and his new bride …this was for her parents since they could not travel for the wedding …my son broke down in front of the entire assemblage ….hundreds of people …in grief as he apologized to me for the way his father had treated me .! This was unexpected for me …I know that the deep wounds will require my son and his lovely new bride some awareness of how it may effect their own functioning in marriage but they are knowledgeable of this . It is terrible but in truth every marriage has elements people need to learn how to navigate.

    I did not know what kinds of deviance lay in my husband’s heart when we met and married . I thought we had hashed out a lot of them …but he was very intelligent, handsome , talented and had all of the things EVERY woman seeks in a prince charming. I knew there would be things to deal with in marriage . He changed when we married and was too highly educated to think he needed to learn anything . He was too able to get everyone to like him so he saw no reason to squelch any opportunities to continue to make friends and keep his life free as possible of any ‘hindrances’ to his career or fun.

    A person who thinks they do not need to reign in his flesh and to be aware of the ways temptation will challenge his life is going to be set up for a fall.

    The point I want to make with this lengthy address is that the reality your sons sadly must face in whatever timing you determine is best MAY work to help them grow in wisdom for their own future relationships , to value character that is godly and moral …and to seek out friends who honor and value loyalty , honesty and marriage.

    Until I began to try to learn how we got to this place in our society I did not recognize fully how the ‘norms’ we all grew up thinking were good and useful for love were skewed and full of holes…at least in my family of origin. We grew up in a time where ‘moralism ‘ and many false things were thought ‘good enough’ to live a good and moral life….that is only part of the necessity . Learning how my parents dynamic which relied solely upon their own fleshly ability and strength to serve the ‘needs’ and ‘wants’ for happiness rather than learning the truths that are foundational to the blending of two lives into ONE for a lifetime …led many of my parents generations to divorce….there are important landmark judicial changes that lead to more taking that route rather than keeping the vows their grandparents took to heart.

    The things I have learned since that awful day have served to help my children learn how important the things GOD tells us for our PROTECTION and GOOD are going to help them make better marriages and choices.

    My husband is still caught up in his solitary choices which I do not see helping those other children and only have enabled the OW to be more and more independent of her own choice to enter into such an arrangement with a married man who she knew would never leave his family nor marry her.

    The manipulation of people’s minds in a state of lust is much more powerful than they may realize or want to deal with before hand and certainly find it difficult the more they justify their actions ongoing.

    I thought at first that those children needed my husband to be in their lives …as this is the way Humanists have leveraged people ‘s consciences to believe. I suppose those kids are gaining something from his interactions but it is STILL on HIS schedule and HIS terms rather than what THEY really need in a father which is to example moral character as well as TRAIN them in it ..which requires a daily and constant effort …AND also they have not been told the honest truth about what he and their mother did ..only told that they ‘hurt a lot of people’ !

    So what they are actually learning is that marriage is way down on the priority of a man …that he can do whatever he wants , including abandon his marriage and family …and as long as he has money then he can do whatever he wants without concern for anyone who he is responsible for .

    While our children were small and he was leaving during our Saturday bible time ..to ‘play golf’ …he ‘taught’ our son that when a boy becomes a man that he does not have to be involved with his children and that the bible is for women and children.

    I don’t know if my son has left off reading the bible but I have not observed him initiating the kind of activity to grow more in the word …I pray that will change …but now he is married and prayer is the only thing that I can do .

    I pray for the Other children and did at one time make an effort to meet them but they were not ready and I honored that …the OW has known our family briefly and did see our home school room and I had explained our reasons for doing it …it was at a company party that she had attended ..only the second time meeting her.

    Her family approved of her relationship with my husband AND of them having two children together.

    This is evidence of how ‘nice’ people are vastly willing to trade morality for money.

    A dear pastor I had heard was willing to give me some counsel as his was a ministry to men to help men learn what it means to be a man in Biblical terms …His explanation which I later confirmed in my study gave me this .

    THE JURISDICTION of the husband is TO THE WIFE …only GOD being before her …not even the children of the marriage …but those children come next in his responsibility and jurisdiction of his priorities.

    Any woman who has a child outside of that marriage is then STILL in the jurisdiction of HER FATHER.

    Now it would seem this woman has been a serial adulteress . Her father does not seem to be of a mind to take responsibility and it is one of the effects of the welfare state that has neatly taken the part of father’s and god in the lives of these women ….rewarding their condition.

    In the Bible the widows and orphans were to be cared for by their immediate family and in the New Testament believers were to take up the care of those who had no other to do so.

    The effective shattering of our society has been as families break up and people are moving so frequently that only the state has been offering the kind of support for women who cast off any kind of moral laws or have been urged to do so over time through media and education which does not serve to encourage morality.

    The way the tangled web has been woven takes some time , energy and desire to get to the bottom of learning the way this destruction has been done …over time but surely and with intention to do so.

    In the mean time … you want my opinion …though it is hurtful indeed that your son’s are going to be effected by this …not telling them is not going to keep them from learning of it eventually especially if that woman is as agressive in her efforts as you seem to indicate.

    You have the ability from your relationship to help them learn what they might in what is useful and how to access the answers from seeking out the way the Word will guide you.

    In shock and sorrow it will take some time …triggers and answers are so important to clarify and confirm your love and your intentions to get through this with …and this is important ..prayer with each other …and over them…and time to seek the things you need to know to help you and them avoid this kind of things in the ongoing years . Learning what pitfalls there are that men especially face in the work place and how to avoid not only being lured by lust into relationships little by little but how to avoid violating women who are clueless and may have their day dreams that lead them on into their own lust.

    I know I have written a great big post and I hope I have not been too wordy …it is a big issue that you are facing.

    I cannot project what your husband’s own effort to have a relationship with the child would be …but I do know that you BOTH need to be prepared because it will mean some lengthy time with this woman who has apparently not intention to let up on her trying to leverage your husband and your bank account.

    It seems harsh to separate a child from the possibility of a ‘sane’ parent …but another aspect is what does the effort say to your sons ….it seems good and right …but I also have seen that in terms of my own husband who fears to step up and teach those kids the truth of what they did as ‘adultery’ and to speak to them of what was ‘wrong’ with what they did and how to protect themselves from going the same way ..he has in essence endorsed behavior that they are likely to repeat.

    The young girl is almost 15 now…the boy is troubled and ten going on eleven and they know he is married with a family but he demonstrates no loyalty to me or marriage and family . he enables their mother to leave them alone ..which she did effectively to leverage my husband’s guilt to get him back into taking on what SHE had told him was HER desire to be a ‘SINGLE MOM BY CHOICE” it was a ruse …and it was for money.

    There is no real distinction or profit to their character which was so needed at the youngest years when they witnessed my husband arriving and …being there then leaving …some time ago the young boy complained that he was the only boy whose dad did not live with them.

    My husband ‘comforted ‘ him by saying lots of kids dad’s don’t live with them! What this taught him was to ‘normalize’ the broken family …! This is in itself a violation of the children’s need to know how to live so that they do not replicate such choices.

    My husband DOES KNOW what is right but he is not willing to risk a relationship with the children to take his place as the true ‘father’ they need. I recognize this as ‘fair weather ‘ fathering….it is something to make HIM feel good but does little good for those children.

    Values set in childhood are so important …I don’t know what you must decide in your situation and I grieve that you are having to deal with it .

    I was so incredulous to learn of my husband’s secret life ..He had EverYTHING most men only dream of and I am not ‘bragging ‘ here …he did HAVE it ALL and still risked everyone’s safety and health to try to live like ‘James Bond’ or ‘Frank Sinatra’ .

    When a society glamorizes or normalizes sin …people who do not know the truth of what GOD has blessed us with are open for all kinds of deceit and it has come upon us ….may God help those who are in darkness and awaken them before it’s too late !

    Presently plenty of father’s live in their homes but are still AWOL….sadly

  23. BTW….sorry you would think after such a long post I would be done… I was just reading an article about fatherlessness. This does indeed have a great impact upon a child, but not all father’s are capable of the kind of humility it takes to learn how to be all of what a child needs from a father and mostly in the FOUNDATION of what he needs to learn.

    My husband had the ‘CLASSIC” LEAVE IT TO BEAVER family . His dad was funny, hard working and involved with his sons. His mom was a good mom and their family seemed almost too good to be true …on the surface….the ONE distinguishing thing missing was faith. It was the one aspect that both his mom and dad rejected with certainty. At one point his father demanded that I not speak about Jesus in his house and his mom said that she did not think anyone had any right to tell anyone what to believe about GOD.

    Now I was not heavy handed with speaking about my own faith and what I was learning as I was a student of the Word . When I met my husband I was actively in music ministry and sharing my faith.

    There was no mystery or surprise to him or his family as to what was the very source and substance of my life and my husband was keen on being active too.

    The missing ‘link’ in my husband’s character was not absence or even a distant father or fractured family or even extended family . What was lacking was having his character trained to be willing to be taught ..to be humble enough to learn , to listen and to apply wisdom.

    His success in academics and sports …led to higher and higher heights and along with his many achievements his pride too grew.

    In his family situation ethics in terms of lying seemed to be something that was accepted ….and this along with pride became the biggest stumbling block to his developing character. It also became the biggest enabler to his decisions that his ‘needs’ no matter what came first in our relationship and his intellect and abilities led to more and more selfish and secretive behavior.

    Life WILL offer many ‘options’ to how one chooses ….Without God’s Word in knowledge and application personally …there are many ‘potholes’ just waiting for any young person to dive into them.

    Entitlement is one character trait that makes the most of any and all opportunities that one may feel is advantageous and leads to all kinds of self deceit to gain what is really worthless at the price of one’s soul.

    The scriptures tell us that ‘what SEEMS right to a man ends in death…’ …it is too bad people live more by what seems right to them than what GOD TELLS US actually IS RIGHT.

    Having an attentive father in the home , involved with all kinds of interests was good but it did not deter my great husband from falling headlong into sin and then ‘staying ‘ there.

    We will be married soon for 34 years …and we are still ‘married’ but my husband MISSED pretty much all of what he was given to enjoy by participation …he threw it all away …and said he did not WANT to be the ‘head’ or the ‘leader’ …well a man was made with a God given influence upon his wife and children ….My husband squandered this …HE DID teach his son about the Lord and the Bible…He demonstrated as I said before , above…that when a boy becomes a man he no longer needs the Bible or God ….

    What a sad legacy for him to realize now …and he seems to still not care learning how to make a difference in even the lives of those other children.

    Being a man does not make him a man ….One other insult with all that my husband has sacrificed for the sake of being ‘in ‘ the other children’s lives ….the OW signed up her son for a ‘big brother’ ! This was so he would have someone to ‘mentor ‘ him!

    Not all Big Brother volunteers are healthy influences ! AND this was a true “slap in the face” to my husband as he spends at least three days a week doing something with those kids.

    Being a ‘father’ involves so much more than a few minutes a few times a week to play….but my husband , wonderful as he was ….did not want to have to do the things that did not appeal to himself ….sadly.

    • I cant thank you enough for your reply. I have prayed about how to talk with someone about this. NO ONE knows this has happened but my husband and I. My boys have known that something was going on, we have always been very open and honest with them and out relationship…so when I tell them “I am fine, nothing we cant work out. Just have a lot on my mind” they take it to heart and I know they believe I would tell them if it were something they needed to know. Some people may criticize my husband and I for raising our children as “open and honest” as we have. We believe that this house is a safe house, no secrets, no judgements, and we tell the truth” for instance my husband had a drug addiction when my 17 year old and 15 year were toddlers. He is very open about it, we talk about it, they have asked him questions..he holds nothing back and i do believe they have more respect for their dad because he “made the right choice” and quit living that kind of life FOR HIS FAMILY! He doesnt try and hide his mistakes, not even from our friends, people in our church, and community. I guess you can say “he owns them and takes full responsibilty” for them. He always has. So many times he has come so close telling the boys about the baby and the affair, but I am the one who stopped him. Like I said before, Its not easy for me to sit back and watch their world get turned upside down. I even told my husband ” I have no control over this brand new life that you have brought into this world, but i do have control over mine…and I refuse to tell them about this until I know its the right thing to do” My husband says he hates “lieing to them”and watching me have to lie to them to cover up something that he did wrong and is ashamed of. He says he will take what is coming to him from the boys…but what he doesnt understand is Im not concerned with how they treat him…Im fearful of how bad their hearts will break. Im just not ready..I keep asking myself, Is it better for them to find out now, my oldest going into his senior year of highschool, and having to deal with the embassarment this wil bring. Or is it better for them to find out later, grown men when “their little sister, born from an affair they knew nothing about” comes to find her daddy?

      You asked about our religion and faith. Yes we are Christians, very active in our church, and I would say we are a very respected and loved family in our community. We live in a very small town, only 1100 people. My boys are known everywhere they go, and loved, looked up to~leaders in their schools. Which brings another problem my husband and I have. Ther embarrasment this will cause them??? I realize that this little girl didnt ask for this, but neither did my boys!!!!! The father that they know and love is not the same father that this little girl will know. Their daddy would go to the ends of the earth for them, move mountains in their name…so how will they feel knowing he walked away from her life to keep peace inside of theirs.

      Im going to back up a bit. My youngest son was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes feb 2012. We almost lost him and he struggles everyday to keep his blood sugars stable (as i type this the school is calling because his blood sugars are too high) This disease literally turned our world upside down.Our faith, prayer and lots of people in our lives that are there for us everyday has kept us going. Well, needless to say. When he was diagnosed, my husband and I drifted apart, I had to sleep in his room for months, checking blood sugar throughout the night and left my husband to “handle” everything else. There were some days we didnt even speak that much..It was really a devistating time where everyone focused on taking care of my yougest. Then financilaly we started suffering financialy. I had to quit work, doctor bills started pilling up. So my husband took a job 13 hours away..for 6 months, he only came home one time. At the time we felt like we had no other option. This is where the affair took place, I had my husbands phone sent off and had a copy sent to me of everything (text messages, pictures) a few months after ifound out. So there is NOTHING that I dont know about what happened. She is a sick woman. She persued and literally stalked him. At one point she went to his hotel room and sat there for hours calling and texting him wanting him to come back to the room (while he sat accross the street waiting for her to leave). He knew what he was doing was wrong, but like I have said before. Hes just a man. He loved the attention she gave him (I surely wasnt givin him any) she did so much for his ego, it is sick to read some of the things she would text him. She knew what she was doing, and she was very good at it. he was just too stupid to realize it then. He was just having a good time, having sex and listening to someone tell him how perfect he was etc…he talked about me to her the ENTIRE TIME! telling her her loved me, how he couldnt believe he was doing this…etc. she would reply “well dont worry, soon as the jobs over and you go home youll never hear from me again..Im just getting my rocks off (thats what she called sleeping with him i guess) and keeping you from being alone. Never gave him any indication that she would do what she did. He said that he knew she was a horrible mother, and i have read the things she told him, at one point her mother called her (because she would leave her kids with her parents, stay out all night long, sometimes be gone for days) at 2am~while she was at my husband hotel room, told her that her kids (4 yrs old and 2yrs old) were sick. for her to bring them medicine they were running a fever,but she wast allowed inside the house to leave it on the doorstep. My husband was furious, even told her that her kids deserved better than that..never dreaming I guess that she would be raising his child one day!!! Anyway, the day he left coming home, she sent him a text message saying she was pregnant, she needed $500 wired to her and that if he didnt tell me that she would, and that she hadplenty of video to show me…(which he knew nothing about) It still amazes me that this man i love so much and have always thought was the smartest person iknew could be so naive and stupid!!! he tried for 7 days to “appease her” try and figure out how/when to tell me”…so he told her he was changing his phone number because she had literaly “gone crazy” and for her not to contact him again. and he has not had any communciation with her since unless it was through me. that will be 2 years ago in november. The day he changed his number is when she sent me all of their “sex videos” and everyday since she has harrased me. He said she is bipolar but never takes hr medicine. She will go from “one extreme” to the other” from apologizing to me, to needing money,to calling me a “fat ugly bitch” and asking me how it feels to know half of his pay check will go to her! I have been accused of seeing the world throught “rose colored glasses” always trying to find the positive in a bad situation. Tell myself things could always be worse,but this is a tough one. If it were just “an affair” that only my husband and I had to work through we would be fine. Honestly “our marriage”is much stronger now than it has ever been, but its the fact that this will never go away. my husband and i were talking about what to do…what was right. I said “your such a good father, she will be no different that your boys when it comes to being her daddy.” and he started crying, he said “you will never unerstand what i am going through. I look a my boys and I see you..every happy memory, your smile, your laugh. its all there in them. and im reminded everytime i look in their eyes of all the good things in my life. everybit of good i have experienced is in them. how am i supposed to look at my little girl and not see the mistake, the shame, anger, guilt, and be reminded of all the bad, how is that fare to her and how am i supposed to ask you and our children to accept her into our lives”
      I often ask myself, If I could wish upon a star..lol or be able to snap my fingers and fix this how would I? and the answer is pretty easy for me. My husband would fight for full custody of the baby, because how would any judge think that the little girl would be better off with her crazy mother, under the circumstances she lives in. She would come to live with us. I would love her like my own. She would have the life she deserves with a father that fought for her instead of seeing her as a mistake he made. Her brothers would realize that everything happens for reasons…even if they hurt in the beginning and they would feel so blessed and thank God everyday for their little sister and they joy that she brings to their lives. That my boys could learn the true meaning of unconditional love by looking at my husband and I. Learn to forgive, and take what we have gone through as a family , learn from it and take the lessons into their adult relationships as they grow. I would pray that the OW after having her child taken from her would realize how much she is hurting her other 2 children and change her life for them…give them a chance. but sadly, this will never happen. I know my husbands heart, i feel like he will accept whatever judgment he gets on visitation to see this child and she will have to shuttle back and fourth 13 hours between her mama and daddy. she will grow up feeling like a mistake,and i fear she will grow up with the same issues and values (or lack of) that her mama has. I dont see the OW making any changes in her behavior..it works for her. She gets child support from the other 2 daddys and their fathes have nothing to do with them. she gets food stamps, welfare, and free insurance, free room and board at her parents, and they watch her 3 kids for her while she parties, gets high, and stays out all hours of the night… and even tho my boys will try with everything in them…they will never forgive their daddy…and they will never be able to not feel sorry for me and what he did to me…even if i assure them EVERY DAY that i am happy and fine. I kinda start to feel sick to my stomach when I think about it al…
      Once again. I cant thank you enough for talking with me..if for nothing else i dont feel so alone…Iwould have never dreamed this would be happening to my family..please keep us in your prayers.

      • Traci,

        Oh how I can relate to your dilemma! I am so sorry that this is what you are living through but then our God is able…..just ABLE ….

        One of the things that has contributed to the downfall our individuals and our culture is ignorance of the things GOD has told us NOT to be ignorant of.

        As I pointed out I have learned that it has been a deliberate effort by the god of this world to work to belittle the importance of human beings to learn from GOD personally by time learning in the Word ..study to show yourself approved unto GOD a WORKMAN that needs not to be ashamed…rightly dividing the word of truth’ 2 Tim 2:15

        Time and time again I have seen what GOD said about HOW man is destroyed is due to ignorance that the scriptures inform us ….how ‘My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge’ and ‘they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters and hewn for themselves cisterns….broken cisterns that can hold no water. God who is the unending source of knowledge, truth and wisdom that results from rightly dividing and applying truth is left with only the various ‘cisterns’ of religion, philosophy and the ‘rational ‘ mind which God has recorded is ‘carnal’ and is ENMITY AGAINST all that is GOD and godliness!

        The history of mankind proves that man apart from God may move forward in all kinds of inventions and constructs but the root of the fallen man’s heart is not ‘good’ as many like to believe but it is ‘deceitful and desperately wicked ‘ and it is the ‘sword of the spirit which is the word of God that will reveal to us the content and condition of it so that we may pursue the Lord and access the help that He has offered to whomsoever WILLS to do so.

        Remaining ignorant of our constant deceptive and real enemy man has gone after the world and the flesh at the devil’s urging. Without the ‘armor’ that God has provided and commanded us as believers to put on daily , which pieces we read are for our distinct and necessary protection we flounder and fall over the deliberate obstacles we are not even aware of . The enemy has also placed many counterfeit ‘dangers ‘ in our path that we might be distracted from the very real ones.

        The ‘beam’ in the eye of a believer is all that we think is ‘good’ as reinforced by those who preach a different doctrine than that which the Lord provided throughout all scripture which HE has told us is ‘god breathed ‘and is profitable for doctrine , reproof and correction which is INSTRUCTION in righteousness….that a man of God would be fully furnished unto all good works.[2 Tim 3:16 , 17]

        Those ‘good works’ involves reading , pursuing and continuing in the Word to learn what we are to do and how to recognize the “real” from the “Memorex” if you will.

        Learning about WHY we have fallen for such lies is instructive and it is not to blame anyone else for our falling but to understand that we have been indoctrinated due to the lack of knowledge God provided for us to be taught and learn what is going on and how to avoid becoming part of the problem and grow in the knowledge , pursue and practice of the SOLUTION .

        Having a Savior in Jesus Christ is only the beginning . The devil enjoys derailing the new Christian from learning the truths that he needs to become a formidable defender of righteousness IN HIS OWN LIFE and so avoiding harming others and other people’s impression of Christianity.

        Sadly our world has become more and more full of those who reject the idea that there is a GOD and that HE is a rewarder of those that persist in pursuing Him….a lot of church “GOING” has replaced church BEING as God has desired those who worship Him to be so in spirit and in TRUTH.

        The true worship is in walking, living out those things that we have sown in our hearts from faithful pursuit of what GOD intended His kids to learn. To apply what HE will guide us into all truth to see and know,.

        The testimony of two ‘witnesses’ has fallen from the way the Bible written in the HEART of a believer is also LIVED OUT in everyday decisions.

        I applaud your husband for his DECISION to not just quit drug use which is HUGE and to take up his cross and walk after Jesus Christ by denying his flesh in this category and learning to live rightly, one decision at a time!

        This is a big deal with God but also with the demonstration to his children. His willingness to be transparent with the children in his charge is instructive for them to learn from their own father how he has struggled with his flesh and sin and through perseverance overcome the desire to use.

        This is how the father’s make the best use of their situations that will also help their sons and daughters learn what to do with the very real challenges of living through this world and overcoming through the ACTIONS taken upon DECISIONS made upon the TRUTHS of God’s Word and reliance upon God’s Spirit to help strengthen them ‘with might in the inner man’ by encouraging truths that their labor not in vain.

        Think, what does the government school actually DO to help children deal with sexuality? They are equipping them with various forms of false information as to WHAT sex is and Why it is and HOW it is most important in RELATIONSHIP .

        Only God provides the truth about sex. And frankly the churches and ministries are not doing much better . Some people who love the Lord are starting to address this issue but it is a long time coming. Marriage and sex have been set aside for many reasons in the church but the bottom line is that a long time ago men got the idea that preaching was a ‘vocation’ like any other ‘career ‘ and schools sprung up and taught things that were “of men’ ….some taught good and various aspects of scholarship which have been useful but in truth the man taught OF and BY the Lord through personal study and attentiveness to the LORD are finding out things, long hidden and by slight of hand in the devil’s intentions , turned aside to other concerns.

        Many sincere men have gone to a seminary or gained EMPLOYMENT in a church or denomination and have been afraid to teach what needed to be addressed. The ‘broad way’ of ‘success’ has left the church devoid of wisdom that was needed to face the realities of spiritual darkness that encroached upon our society and now has pretty much taken up the lead as our government, various fields of education and media are marching onward to bring about a one world that will suit and serve the greatest one usurper of the authority of our God …the Anti Christ!

        All of the social ‘norms’ have been the result of many men and women who individually have rejected the God of the Bible and turned to more ‘humane’ behavioral plans.

        The Humanist doctrine SOUNDS nice and loving but at the deletion of GOD at the head and so man’s flesh and carnal reasoning has taken the lead. The idea of a devil has been neutralized and mocked and so many , even among church goers are convinced that the answer to the ills of the world lie completely in their own hands.

        Humanism is at the root of the doctrine of world leaders and governments driving on toward the one world religion, politic and economy and it is no longer a ‘secret’ among a few as we now see a bold exposition of it as THE PLAN that will “fix’ all of societies ills.

        Those who have, by sheer hard work, diligence and moral conscience, become the abundant contributors to our culture and industry are not in the sights of the social engineers to gut the resources of those God has blessed as they have adhered to moral laws and godly reverence to Him who made us and has all our best in mind.

        Man is given free will to learn and to make choices based upon wisdom …but having set God aside and reverence for the Truth He has provided through Jesus Christ and His word , man apart from GOD can do nothing righteous.

        The various ‘mantras’ of this age have been continuously ‘planted’ through repetition until more and more people believe it is ‘right ‘ to ‘not judge’ but the context of that truth has been ripped to shreds as emotion and feelings have ruled the day and men and women moved by their emotions to think of ‘love ‘ only in their flesh terms and not what GOD has used His whole word to demonstrate and define.

        As God’s children we are told to ‘judge not according to appearance but to judge righteous judgment’ …and where many wonder will we find ‘righteous judgment’ but back in that verse which tells us all of the Word is ‘instruction in rigthteousness’

        Everyone DOES judge but it is by the tenets of our culture which is marching to the drum of the god of this world.

        Churches too , adrift and under the demeaning of scripture by so called ministers of righteousness trained up by traditions of man and false doctrines based upon Gnostic influences as Jesus warned us would be the case ….all are gone astray …and only few take the road less traveled that is narrow leading unto the King’s realm of truth and love.

        This did not happen overnight and yet it did happen swiftly in comparison to our time frame …in a little over a mere one hundred years that last bastion of a whole nation founded upon biblical truths has become one of the largest exporters of pornography in the world …No wonder that the false teaching of some large religious groups have grounds to inflame anger against us !

        In my early years as I entered into my walk with the Lord I had had no real godly relationships to measure the character of people . I found out through study and asking the Lord to teach me “WHAT has happened to the church ? “ many of the things that have taken a lot of time to find out .

        What we don’t know , we don’t KNOW …and it has hurt us !

        “Deception” is INDEED the most prominent hallmark of the age! This is just as Jesus told us would be increasingly profound about the end of the church age. In effort to deter believers from realizing the truth of just what time it is …the ‘end of the age’ has been both reduced in our minds through mockery and on the other hand lauded as fiction and fantasy . Believing the truth about the TIMES we live in has been very useful in the hands of those who have , like the Pide Piper lead people down the garden path of Humanism and Utopian day dreams of a future where MAN has been the architect of all history and future combined! Man as GOD is very much on their drawing table and has become pretty close to their ultimate end.

        Study of prophesy in churches a has either been the dominant focus and been made a laughing stock by false predictors gaining an audience for themselves OR it has been set aside as nothing we need be concerned about like some giant ‘wizard of Oz’ ….denying the need or purpose to ‘look there’

        All of this has led to man being more and more concerned about responsibilities that are really GOD’S while also ignoring attendance to learning what man’s own responsibilities are !

        I recall emphasis in teaching upon marriage and family order and responsibilities being laid upon the wives ! Indeed it was focus upon the wife’s need to respect , honor and serve the ‘needs’ of her husband that seemed to be the most taught aspect of marriage.

        IN truth it was all a part of the cultural reversal of roles and the plan was to bring about a shift in culture whereby the genders were NEUTRALIZED. It has effectively worked to relieve boys of the process whereby they are brought into true manhood and taught by fathers and other men HOW they need to be matured.

        The industrial revolution had several effects upon culture and society which was intentional about diverting and dividing men from family headship. There is a good book about how this has worked to fracture family.

        Men were no longer home and working with sons , mentoring them and training them when they reached the age where they needed to be ‘toughened up’ to take upon themselves responsibilities useful to provide for family.

        They also were removed effectively from training up sons and daughters in a daily personal way , teaching scripture in family devotions, and exampling how to love one’s spouse in a sacrificial way that also matured them spiritually as everyone is to SUBMIT TO GOD as head …not just a lording over and service to the ‘king of his castle’ ….in truth Jesus told his disciples …followers …that it was not to be so among them as it was with others who lorded over others but to become servant leaders.

        In the wake of such a development that seemed to advance our society in so many good ways …families indeed suffered loss.

        Women were no longer abiding at home with a cottage industry as factories took their husband’s time, energy and eventually hearts from the home. Their ‘free time’ left them open for more , outside activities which actually led to a more feminized tone of church attendance. Thus going to church became what women and children , and ‘weak ‘ men did …Men actually began to fulfill their ‘need’ for comradely and ‘fellowship’ in pubs after work!

        Once again ‘justification’ for these kinds of slipping away from God’s plan for man and families happened as the Word was little by little set aside in the family core and in church. The design and order of GOD was being conformed to the world . God has instructed us NOT to ‘be conformed to this world but to be transformed by the renewing of the mind ‘

        Soon children were involved in factory work but more the government was working toward what they wanted …our education system was designed after the prototype of the Prussian government . They had consulted ‘scientists’ to bring forth a way to have “a population which would be easily led’ .

        We may note that even the earliest forms of public education were placed in the setting of a ‘laboratory’ and children were segregated by age as the ideas of evolution came into popular thought.

        Treating children as wholesale developing by age rather than growing according to the way God has set each person as unique has led further to the acceptance of the child in the womb being a ‘fetus ‘ rather than a person , a unique soul , known to GOD from before birth.

        Eugenics being an outgrowth of evolutionary acceptance gave ‘birth’ to planned parenthood whose founder and ‘the mother ‘ of it has been ‘outed’ as a proponent of this devilish doctrine whereby countless of people were slaughtered by Hitler seeking to speed up the ‘evolutionary process’ and more countless lives murdered by ‘choice’ as abortion has become ‘ a viable option’ to ‘thou shalt not kill’ . Margaret Sanger was part of Hitlers associates in the Eugenics movement that has followed the RELIGION of Evolution.

        All kinds of ideologies from what would have seemed to be random coincidental associations have been working in concert to effect the changes in our world that God has foretold will be necessary for the Anti Christ to be accepted as the ‘messiah’ by many and varied ‘factions’ of people groups on earth,. They will not know the difference as they have not known the truth of scripture. It is even very likely that those who believe themselves to be Christian but have not really studied the Word themselves and investigated what is ours to compare with what we see, hear and are taught …that they too will be deceived!

        You may wonder why I have gone to such length to share some of what I have gleaned as I have spent these years in search of answers as to WHY things are so messed up IN and OUT of the church! I believe it is VERY RELEVANT in how you must consider what to do in your own situation.

        Many , even in the church have fallen into sinful situations and then wondered HOW did I end up DOING that ! It is because we have not taken the enemy seriously or have not learned just how stealthy he has been at work.

        We may note that this is JUST how the enemy in any situation works best …under cover and by way of counter intelligence. He has come in ‘sheep’s clothing’ , portraying himself as ‘good’ and as ‘here to help you’ …in it has not been without intention to take up the very pulpit where many sheep have not been taking their direction from the Lord but have been asleep in the pew . our ‘favorite sins’ have been addressed with ‘it’s nothing to worry about , Jesus did it all’ ‘God is love and will forgive sin’ …just confess it ….and don’t sweat it.

        God does indeed forgive and He IS love but man’s love is not the same as God’s love …God’s love offers us a WAY to make changes in our thinking and thus our lives. His love provides us with knowledge , wisdom and power to turn from sin . If we do not see or recognize the traps and snares that are laid out because we think like the world thinks then we will not be concerned about sin because we know we will be forgiven.

        That is only PART of the way we should think! We need to see sin for what it is …DEADLY …Adultery is around EVERY corner in the way media and even highway signs stimulate a man’s flesh.

        Men are told in the Word to ‘guard their hearts ‘ by way of ‘guarding their eyes” …it is a HUGE point of practical wisdom to teach young men how to do this ..They are challenge at every point in this day and time.

        There was a song I came across I had not heard growing up but I know some people have had it …”Be careful little eyes what you see …” ..then it goes on to say “ be careful little ears what you hear’ …and then ‘be careful little feet where you go’!

        This kind of walking circumspectly ‘ was not known to me …the most I got was ‘don’t talk to strangers’ and ‘don’t lie our you’ll get it worse next time’ …I am thankful for that last lesson which has held me in good stead all my life…maybe I am TOO transparent with some people who don’t need all that much info’ but still ….wisdom passed on as to HOW to live in such a climate as our day and time is now is so important and USEFUL to protect our children and each other!

        I recall a that anyone who took scripture too heart and tried to live by it was ‘mocked’ or rejected by my family and most of those who we knew growing up. Those who did live that way were considered ‘too religious’ and ‘ fanatics’ and maybe ‘uniquely called’ rather than being the actual way GOD intended us to live. This kind of attitude was also part of the way media and culture was working to dilute the impact of the actual life lived by faith that Jesus Christ called us to walk in.

        All of this is the SAME progression down and away from respect for God as good and the Word as our guide to live life in the abundance that comes from personal daily relationship with God that satisfies, fulfills and grows a person in all the ways that bring about not just eternal life but freedom from harmful things that lure by way of the world, the flesh and the working of the demons of hell under the command of the god of this world.

        All of the ‘steps’ we observe in Eve conclude in her being in the ‘domain’ of the devil which was ONCE Adam’s jurisdiction….the whole world and all who submit to sin as they are convinced of it being ‘natural ‘and doable’ or even ‘forgiven ‘ are then under the influence of many assaults by the ‘suggestions’ and ‘thoughts ‘ that build up in the mind unprotected with the truth .

        The Lord tells us the way to combat these temptations …
        2Co 10:5
        Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

        I know that this sounds like an impossible task. It is , if we rely only upon our own strength and limited knowledge of what a ‘high thing’ is or what God’s definitions are of what we face in our daily life.

        The man who learns to lean not upon his own understanding but to acknowledge GOD in all things and seeks to become informed will carry out what is most needed in this world.

        The man who loves GOD learns how to protect others from his own carnal thoughts and natural reactions to things that tempt and try him.

        A man who loves GOD and learns how to govern his own life will learn how to guard his wife and even other women from his flesh. He will not take advantage of any woman ‘offering’ him something that appeals to his flesh, not just because of his love for his wife but because he will understand that walking in keeping with God’s wisdom in regard to relationship will protect other women who might have not idea the danger to themselves by seeking ‘love’ which is not love!

        Women fall into sin very much due to not being loved by fathers who themselves do not realize this most important aspect of their lives.

        Daughters raised by men who live by emotion…even in their ‘good ‘ attempt to parent will not have the stability of a father who knows what his portion is and how to conduct and govern his various aspects of loving God, learning to love his wife and thus others.

        Governing his own flesh is KEY and it is part of the change of identity from natural , unbeliever , to following Christ as instructed by him …which involves very importantly to ‘deny himself’ ….’

        Many men may read this and understand it from a fleshly standpoint . They seek to ‘sacrifice’ in ways that are not going to communicate true devotion but instead more or less bring about an attitude of expectation of being acknowledged and thus recompensed by those they sacrifice “FOR” rather than the kind of giving due to the serving GOD .

        To do the work that GOD has ‘foreordained for us to walk in’ is to do so toward HIM …this leaves out expectations of recognition from PEOPLE who we may think ‘owe’ us something for what we do.

        I came across this in a practical way as I endeavored to respect, honor and live with my husband through many years of his ignoring me and our family. I did indeed try to communicate to him all that he as missing out on by his neglect of his first jurisdictions to Godward and to me as he had VOWED to live with intention to fulfill.

        The discovery of his long investment of what he had vowed to GOD and me in marriage did indeed put a different light upon all that I had done to obey GOD in respect of my vows to God and my husband.

        In betrayal my struggle has been to retain the attitude that I must obey GOD despite whether or not my husband or others acknowledge it …which is challenging as many times we hope to live our lives in some way as ‘contributing ‘ to others lives for the good.

        The truth is however that those who love the world will only find offense with a godly life. They don’t like to be given the word or the idea that there is a standard and an accountability to something or someone that is in opposition to what they like , feel or want. This is the basis for a false teacher to gain a following and a lucrative one.

        However learning to live what is truly ‘counterculture’ in following Jesus Christ is one of the things He warned anyone who will follow Him will soon experience.

        It is not our personality or behavior that is most offensive to others it is the WORD ….not that there may not be areas where a follower may have a long way to grow in the transformation of how learning and being corrected by the Word will eventually bring about.

        For those who are self willed and responsive to their fleshly desires, emotions and the world about them ..there will be areas of the lives of believers they will find or be pointed out to criticize in order to defuse the effects of the conviction of the Holy Spirit upon their conscience.

        It is one of the more difficult truths to recognize with people who invest themselves to sinful living that what they say to justify themselves is usually errily the same. This is because as Jesus told us those who lie does so by the influence of the ‘father of lies, the devil’!

        Time and again as I observe the statements shared on many forums dealing with the betrayed looking for answers and help they recount the things the adulterers say …they are not original!

        I told my husband that I never expected to have to deal with infidelity since we had discussed this in depth before marriage and even afterward. But the things that are now recorded on many sites that minister to adultery situations list off “red flag’ behaviors that are common among those who are sliding down this razor of compounding influences that lead to adultery.

        I now recognize those red flags and also that they are the SAME for anyone …and what do you know …they ARE mentioned throughout scripture as those things we are to do and to avoid in terms of staying faithful to GOD and to a spouse.

        All of what God tells us is for our protection. A man who obeyed the Lord who has not only come to submit to the changes of identity from natural man to a follower of Christ will not have as difficult a time submitting to the things that are needed for a man to change from a self willed single man to a godly submitted married man.

        My husband did not make that transition mentally but continued to want to function in his life by self determination and self will and entitlement to live life any way he wanted.

        He expected me to do all the adjustments due to the ideas that a woman was to ‘follow ‘ her husband and submit to HIM>

        Indeed he enjoyed this very much and it destroyed his enjoyment of his wife and marriage and eventually family.

        Going back to my reference to the man being ‘removed’ from the family during the latter 1800’s with the move away from the home being central to his life, children were more oftentimes taught by women. This is not bad in terms of women being very responsive to small children’s need for nurture …teachers, mothers and grandmothers deal with children in a more sensitive and empathetic way . At some point in the biblical and historical sense men would take up the training of sons. Honing them and toughing them up to become men who would take on the various things that GOD had actually given to men to do which would be an aspect of fulfillment in them . Work…providing materially for protection and various physical needs of their families.

        Somewhere along the line among even men who were ‘family men’ the aspect of financial and physical provision became separate from all of the other aspects of provision ..being character training, instruction of godly devotion and valuing the Word .

        One of the ways this was useful to a man feeling little loss of anything of value to his own development and fulfillment was the idea of ‘compartmentalization’ which ‘excused him’ from the other aspects of his responsibilities in his JURISDICTION of HUSBAND first and FATHER second. This is not that one is more important than the other but it is in the GODLY ORDER which is to be most effective in provision and protection of each relationship.

        A man who values his relationship with GOD first will be instructed and enabled to obey GOD in all of his other areas of life.

        UNITY and not segmentation was the will of GOD regarding his creation of man, in relationship first with Himself which was one of the impetuses for Jesus Christ coming and paying the price for our reconciliation with GOD . It was His being our KIN in terms of coming into concretion as a man that ‘qualified’ Him to be that substitute for fallen MAN.

        Man was given the woman OUT of HIS OWN FLESH to be an equal but different helper. BTW there no such word as ‘helpmeet’ …the understanding of the PHRASE of the woman who was to be the helper …’meet’ or sufficient in companionship and all other equal ways WITH the man was the intent and does indeed change the way people see this role of the wife.

        Anyway young men being raised only by relationships with women for the most part in practical ways has resulted in generations of young men coming of age without much if any idea HOW to function as a man according to GOD’s intent and for their own self fulfillment and understanding of what their life was purposed to become.

        Today many demonstrate being aged but immature! It is the focus of some to demonstrate that they should be respected because they work and how hard it is so we who benefit should worship them for doing what they are SUPPOSED to do and actually most find their fulfillment IN their work! It is not that they are not to find SOME fulfillment in work but it is not THE most fulfilling.

        Thus many being unfulfilled experience this sense of ‘lack ‘ because they do not know nor recognize the deep hole that not knowing Christ has within them. They sense a lack and seek something to fill it …most look to recreation or buy the lie that ‘real men’ do dangerous risky things or ‘need’ sexual experiences of vast and multiple kind to “really ‘ be a man!

        These are lying ‘doctrines’ fed daily now to men who know not what spirit they are of .

        I have set this large post for you to consider the BENEFIT of the father of your sons in how he might take this terrible sinful ‘choice’ …be it though he was deceived’ …all of how we are deceived is to be LEARNED from the WORD what are those ‘ditches’ and how to avoid falling into them and then WHY it is necessary for us to stand upon the things GOD tells us to do in order to not only protect our own loved ones but all others who ‘learn’ or are affected by our lives!

        Man was given HUGE responsibility because by DESIGN he has HUGE INFLUENCE. This is not lost on Satan.

        If Satan can deceive and trip up the HEAD of a household he may plunder the house!

        If Christ is meant to be the ‘head’ of the man …in other words the Word of GOD being LORD in a man’s thinking thus directing his steps and decisions and view of all things that approach him in this world …THEN the head must be ‘removed’

        The distraction of a man from knowing his HEAD as Christ is bound to leave him in a state of vulnerability to the world, the flesh and the devil , UNARMED to deal with lust and various other ‘callings ‘ set up to take him captive.

        If he sins and continues to hide it it WILL become the “hook” that keeps him snared …and take him further into darkness , hiding and secrecy which will eat away at his soul.

        The sooner we deal with sin that better. The sooner a person exposes sin to the light and the knowledge of those effected by it and TURNS to learn to walk in the way of the Lord through being teachable and taking up the challenge and command of GOD to study daily …then the less power the devil will have to leverage that person to continue in sin.

        Accountability and exposure are the backside and aim of the snares the devil uses to continue using those who fear the consequences once they have fallen for the snare.

        THESE are the beneficial things you might consider for the sake of the future necessities of your sons to not become vulnerable to the vast numbers of sinful influences that are abounding in today’s apostate world.

        Terms like ‘apostate’ have become mock-worthy in our day when many false prophesies have gone forth..caused some to panic who knew not scripture and then become fools in the eyes of the world. It is also one of the tactics of the enemy of the souls of those who are more concerned with what people think than walking in truth.

        We do acknowledge our various ways we have been misled and taught things not according to the Truth of scripture. Back in the days when young people came to Christ there was a hunger and thirst for truth and a zeal but not according to knowledge of the truth. Many took advantage of this unlearned generation coming to Christ …many were turned away from the Lord due to hurt and harm upon discovery that their teachers lied and manipulated.

        But the ‘success’ of the devil to steal, kill and destroy those who were entering in has not deterred all …some but not all.

        Overcoming hurt and damage from sin and deceitful people is possible and in reality a MUST for those who follow Christ.

        As I said before Jesus was clear that in the latter days deceit and lies would be great …in and out of the pulpit …every person must become armed with the WORD and allow GOD to grow them up in the knowledge and understanding that come from personal continuing in His word so that we may be discipled by HIM…
        Jhn 8:31
        Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

        In separation from God and knowledge of His testimony found in all scripture we have all tended to have higher expectations of other people’s ability to sustain integrity that we have come to identify with ‘good ‘ people. The truth however is that all have sinned and come short of the necessity of holiness that only is ours through Jesus Christ and HIS life , death and resurrection.

        God’s MERCY has given us TIME to come to Him and GRACE as allowed us to live the length of a lifespan to learn all that God will instruct those willing to submit to His teaching through His Word.

        To be a ‘hearer’ of His Word ‘second hand ‘ through preachers and others ONLY is like watching someone eat a hamburger and thinking we are full! We all need to personally take the time and place God and His Word FIRST in our day and priority in order to live , experience and observe the changes that GOD only will engage in us as we refer back to Him and think ‘ what does God say in this situation’?

        What is HIS responsibility and what is mine.

        In our situation my husband had the opportunity to repent , that is to not just admit what he did was wrong but to take that opportunity to turn to learn what he needed to learn in order to effectively turn the whole situation around to submit to GOD

        The scriptures do not just say ‘resist the devil’ as many like to quote …but PRIOR to that it says ‘SUBMIT to GOD ‘ …in this they work in one and the same function…when you are submitting to GOD you WILL be resisting the devil and ‘he will flee from you ‘’…and that is only until the ‘next’ time when the effort will be repeated to get one off balance and off the narrow way!

        Our stumbling and falling can be useful to help others to learn NOT to ‘go that way’ IF we are willing to stay the course with the Lord and allow that those sinful and sorrowful things will also lend weight to others of what not to do and what GOD has continued to instruct us TO DO.

        In this your husband’s first duty is to GOD , and in this world TO YOU …and then to the children of the covenant of marriage.

        Hard as this may seem to people raised in the humanist environment where everyone is made to feel guilty for the choices others make and then take up the responsibilities that come in consequences …there is a form of trying to be ‘god’ to others who really NEED to deal with the consequences of the sin they commit OR as you have recounted the effort to shield this woman from dealing with the reality of her sinful choices by her parents and now YOUR family …as you are being leveraged for concern for HER child …is a very difficult thing for you to deal with.

        Still the truths of JURISDICTION and PRIORITIES will guide you aright if you can endure the way you are projecting a future for that child which you really do not have the ability to do unless you discount the ability of GOD to BE GOD even for that child.

        I know how tough this is for you. I too have made decisions that effectually have allowed my husband to choose to once again avoid dealing with his first jurisdiction and responsibility to GOD , me as his wife and our family.

        He has put us all in danger, financial ruin , even as his ‘integrity ‘ such as it is still causes him to support us and pay the bills. His ego however is still the driving force used by satanic influences of this world and our present age to continue to DRIVE him. You know this word has often been used in our day among believers as a biblical paradigm when it is GOD who LEADS and desire us to follow after HIS WAY which is recorded in HIS WORD .

        Jesus IS THE way we are to follow ..what is our commonly accepted vocabulary should not be taken lightly . In the word the things that ‘drive’ us are considered by GOD as leverages of emotion, appetite and perceived ‘needs’.

        Jesus told us what our ‘needs ‘ are to be …they are basically identified as to know the truth …which ‘sets men free’ from the ‘law’ of sin that works death in our flesh and carnal minds.

        Sex , by the way , is NOT a ‘need’ as taught to many through the culture and even churches….to ‘get our needs met’ has been hijacked to translate that any urgent feeling we have is a ‘need’ …what we DO need is to learn to ‘govern our flesh’ what the world does is to solicit a sexual impulse as a ‘need’ and thus many men are ‘driven’ to think they MUST ‘get’ sex….

        God told unmarried men to govern their sexuality UNTIL married and then to govern their sexual desires even then …lust has no good effect in any category.

        So I have come to learn that a young man who does not govern his lust BEFORE marriage will not have any better grip on it after ward.

        Men who are stimulated all around in this culture whine that their wives are not sexual enough! What …does this mean that centuries before men were not as sexual as they are now? No …in fact among men who knew not God they were just as base and uncontrolled. BUT today’s man has extra imagery and encouragement to let it all hang out and thus he is stimulated not by the sight and memory of his own wife as Malachi and other places encourage him to BECOME SATISFIED by the wife of his youth but he is engorged by all kinds of sexual stimulation surrounding his every move and location!

        So then it is even more important for men to be taught this tactic of the devil to use to help a man justify his ‘need’ since his wife is not able to continually deal with these kinds of uber sexual state that the man is directed to learn how to deter in his own mind by means of God’s instruction …what you see, what you hear [think of the many lyrics today!] and where you go and who you choose to spend a lot of time with.

        These are areas man IS TOLD by GOD to learn to deal with .Corinth was a very sinful and tempting place so Paul was inspired to direct those living there and coming out of that culture how to deal with it.

        God does not tempt us but in a trial that comes from living in the world Satan is very subtle in using our state under trial to tempt and it is in those things we may become stronger in our leaning upon God or stumble over areas we have not equipped ourselves to learn how to ‘submit to GOD ….thus before you know it you are IN a situation more difficult to ‘resist ‘ the devil …we may use these areas where we have fallen and the Lord has recovered us to confirm what GOD has written to warn and equip us in ..in our dealings with equipping our children and others .

        May your find some help in what I have shared….God is still able to heal in your family and it would appear that your husband is in a state of godly repentance that leads to life and thus willing to do all that he may learn to help his sons with the reality that they now have and will be able to teach them tools they will need in the coming years should the Lord tarry as He awaits patiently the fulfilling of the body with the rest of those who will believe .

        This world has always been a dangerous place due to the Fall and the devil having taken the dominion that Adam once had as his own jurisdiction. What a man will not take upon himself in terms of the jurisdiction of his own life and then a marriage and family God has provided and allowed upon the vows of the covenant then those jurisdictions will be ‘taken ‘ by the enemy to some degree.

        The education of children was ‘taken’ in the vacancy of fathers abdicating their god given and ordained task and privilege to train up their children. The state now asserts to override the God given rights of parents and is in process of making laws against the order and will of GOD.

        When I got my teaching credential back in 1972 I was told that it was the teacher’s job to usurp the authority of the parent in the mind of the child. At the time I did not know much about the word and so it went over my head. Once I got into the word and then began to home school my own children sooner or later the Lord brought this to mind! It is exactly what the devil has endeavored to do over all time ..to usurp Godly order and authority! No wonder our ‘education system’ has been a direct effort to transform society over generation by way of WHAT children learn! They endeavor to teach younger and younger…the forming of man’s mind and body was not lost on Satan …not by a long shot.

        Still you have opportunity to take up this godly ordained function in the lives of your sons. No life entrusted to your husband is without significance in GOD’S order.

        This truth of sovereign jurisdiction is now seen more and more in play as boundaries in every godly area are being challenged and dismantled.

        It is in lacking an understanding of godly purposes for man , for life, for marriage , for family , for government that we have been derailed as a nation …entertainment, pleasure and ‘success’ of all descriptions have become the focal point to the destruction of souls ‘free’ of knowing why they were born and what life is all about . Even the definition of ‘love’ has been skewed and defile to mean feelings …mostly fed on hormones of limerance. Nothing resembling the truth of what Love is as we see demonstrated by God’s only begotten Son on the cross! Laid down because of LOVE for GOD ….HE always did the will of His father.

        If earthly father’s demonstrated such willingness and taught their sons this definition of love by laying down their lives to please the Father by way of obeying His word then we will see young men avoiding the pain of the way our culture is luring them to believe the various lies of what their lives are for . It is not for the state as we have heard ‘children are OUR greatest ‘resource’! People are NOT ‘resources ‘ but individuals meant to glorify GOD and we were ‘bought with a price we are not our own’

        It is for this truth that a man REQUESTS to take on the responsibility of another man’s daughter as WIFE …and HE is THEN responsible for that woman’s life and any children out of that covenant marriage …all aspects of the life they then experience . He is asking to be THE steward of the life and conditions of that woman.

        Thus the woman who had children by other men is not to become the ‘ward of the state’ but is to be cared for and is the responsibility of HER FATHER …not having a husband and the children she has are HER responsibility and as difficult as it is for us in this day and time …her ‘suffering ‘ the consequences of choosing to pursue a married man and then to get pregnant by him is one of the things SHE must suffer through and even watching the lack those children have …

        I KNOW this is too difficult for us to imagine as we too have been conditioned emotionally and we DO care about the children.

        Sadly emotions not reigned by God’s word and wisdom have caused that woman’ s parents to enable her to go on to do MORE sinful damage to MORE lives…and she is still at it .

        NO one says NO to leaving people to deal with consequences of their sinful choices . No one or nearly no one is teaching children there are consequences for sin.
        There are medicines and therapies due to regarding man as an ‘animal’ and unable to control his baser appetites.

        All pretty much stemming from the evolutionary view of man who is then only a product of his environment and the primordial slime he somehow came out from! Big Bang my eye! The only ‘big bang” was ‘GOD SAID and it WAS SO! But that truth then leave all who want to avoid accountability with the problem of a GOD who WILL call them to account for their choices.

        Anyway…I know that your decision will be difficult but consider prayer with expectation of clarity as you study the word for help in understanding. Most people you talk with will not give this encouragement but to ‘cut to the chase ‘ to take care of immediate pain instead of the long view of the necessity to face reality and proceed upon the things GOD will work into your understanding.

        Psa 84:11
        For the LORD God is a sun and shield: the LORD will give grace and glory: no good thing will he withhold from them that walk uprightly.

        2Pe 2:9
        The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

        Exo 20:6
        And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

        Deu 5:10
        And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep mycommandments.

        Deu 7:9
        Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

        How to love ?

        Jhn 14:15
        If ye love me, keep my commandments.

        That is NEW TESTAMENT….

        Jhn 15:10
        If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.

        1Jo 5:2
        By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

        1Jo 5:3
        For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

        Jhn 14:23
        Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

        BTW ..WHO are YOUR brother’s and sisters? WHO are those who are JESUS’S brothers and sisters? Are ALL regarded by HIM as ‘children of GOD”?

        What did JESUS say regarding this issue?

        Mat 12:50
        For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

        Mar 3:35
        For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister,and mother.

        Thus TWO “WITNESSES “ of scripture to confirm this truth.

        Who is right then the Humanists and social engineers or Jesus Christ?

        Deu 17:6
        At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.

        Deu 19:15
        One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.

        Mat 18:16
        But if he will not hear [thee, then] take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

        2Co 13:1
        This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

        This brings up the account of Jesus being brought the woman caught in ‘adultery , in the very act’. Jesus did not CONDEMN the woman because there were no witnesses which according to law was a necessity. He told her ‘go and sin no more’ …since Jesus always upheld the laws of GOD then this was not actually an issue of forgiveness but one of keeping the laws necessary for condemnation.

        His life does provide forgiveness but on the part of those who wish to receive it and live in the benefit of it they must confess …which is something they must realize is a need .

        Salvation is a need which has a provision from God but necessitates the person first becoming aware of their need which is to be SAVED …but from WHAT? Sin?

        That is not motive enough for some of us. The CONDEMNATION and the CONDITION that is due just and full recompense required by a holy and just GOD is what the ten commandments demonstrate and reveal as man’s inability to be an any CONDITION to be in relationship with GOD .

        The Pharisees were of all men known to be the most capable of being able to be received by GOD but Jesus pointed out that even those guys did not have what was necessary. The righteousness of GOD came not by works of the law or flesh but by faith in HIM who is righteous and will impute that righteousness to all who are willing to receive it.

        Just knowing that something is ‘wrong’ or ‘sinful’ does not do that IN a person. Only conviction of the need to have a Savior QUALIFIED from the eternal consequences of the STATE we were born into as descendants of Adam.

        Our flesh is born spiritually subject to physical death , our souls are subject to eternal destination either by being born of HIS spirit or …if not …eternal separation from the just and holy God who cannot be in relationship with one who is not OF HIS SPIRIT.

        Continue in prayer and supplication for wisdom as you search the scriptures to learn about what is so in all situations we are finding ourselves presently dealing with.

        God IS indeed LOVE and so He is not unable to deal with all that we are concerned with for His glory and our good.

        I hope you have found some comfort and benefit in all that I have endeavored to share here with you. It may prove helpful to whoever else may find this post.

  24. It never seems to fail that I no sooner write for hours at length …I take a shower and more comes to mind . I also see many typos that I hope you will forgive and be able to determine the word or words intended!

    One thing that I had come up was that people tend to lean toward any excuse to compromise on the truth .

    It is one of the things we have come to identify as ‘peer pressure’ and it has been very useful as tool to further corrupt those who know not the truth but want to be ‘good’ people .

    I recall going off to a bible college where I was surrounded by PK’s and even a roommate who was the daughter of a missionary. I was then determined to be a morally pure woman even though I had not had it occur to me the mental and heart effects of my dad’s porn collection which by today’s standards was rather mild. Also I did not realize I did not have a solid FOUNDATION which God’s word tells us is ‘the apostles , prophets with Jesus Christ as the chief cornerstone!

    As I noted before anyone who actually endeavored to live by the Bible was thought to be a kook or some other social “deviant”…much like today only back then it was mostly implied and not spoken in public…the effects of that attitude were the same and actually as we look at biblical records it has been so from the beginning pretty much.

    So I went to college with my high hopes of being able to keep my virtue and be somewhat respected for it. How wrong this was. It was at this college that further assault upon my ideas of what the value of purity and virginity were attacked from all sides! Literally it was noised abroad and mocked that I was unwilling to ‘kiss on the first date’ . Still I made it through that first year amid so many ‘believing ‘ young people among whom I did not hear the gospel but a lot more talk of ‘doing it’ …snickers all around as plans were being devised in one classically clean cut girls arranging her ‘first time;’ with her boyfriend which was somewhat approved and encouraged by other girls seeing they were ‘going to get married anyway’

    Then I preceeded on to transfer to another school , a secular one . I continued to hear of the sexual exploits of girls with their boy friends. I was really odd man out and that was only in 1966! Imagine what kids who have holes in their foundation today are dealing with and early on in public schools.

    The final assault upon my ‘keeping my virtue’ was successful and upon ‘giving up and giving in’ to the arguments I became at once self destructive as I reasoned that the man was not my going to be my husband as I had also bought the lie that I should seek success first in a career based upon my talent.

    The point here is that most people who have fallen into sin do not intend to and they don’t know that they CAN prepare to overcome and remain on the narrow way that is PROTECTIVE .

    Young people are not given this protective armor and even as those kids were preacher’s kids they did not apparently come away with the knowledge of what they needed to preserve their own walk nor did they really understand the depth of damage SIN DOES to even those who eventually may marry their ‘first’ one.

    When our children were young I simply could not teach from my sinful past what specifically was my sin yet as time has gone by and especially after my husband’s D DAY I have been forthright to tell them of the various ways I was caught by sinful pressures.

    Compromise of what we DO hope will ‘keep us’ from sin does it’s work in a very downward slide.

    As in the video “ Shakey Town’ which demonstrates and gives the account of how homosexuality took over San Francisco early in the century when the NAVY used to drop men off in the port who were discovered behaving that way.

    It went from a vague but shameful reality , hidden and unspoken or dealt with to something tolerated …then accepted and then NORMALIZED …and now demand for legalization by man’s courts of law.

    Any effort by Satan to work and corrode the moral law in the minds of people …once the COMPROMISE has worked it’s way into the mind and then the heart it will overtake a society as we have now seen demonstrated.

    It was recorded for us to learn from in the Biblical accounts of past societies and civilizations destroyed by the same sin but we have been moved from personally studing of it …time and work and other activities fill the time which God could have used in our hearts to teach us and to warn us and help us become ready for those assaults.

    My dad and my dad’s dad did not instill a respect for God and His Word so then I have had to play ‘catch up ‘ for these past 46 years. The effort my mom made to teach me how to be a ‘good ‘ person were of little help in the face of the intellectual assaults by many who worked to destroy by reason what is to be understood , and known through respect and revelation of GOD.

    One professor I encountered in that first ‘bible’ or ‘church ‘ college was a social studies proff [ of course] the impact of a statement he made hit me like a ton of bricks I can still recall . He said ‘We cannot judge another culture by the mores of our own’ ….it was the first recollection I have of what we now identify as “MORAL RELATIVISM”

    This kind of professor and curriculum is well exposed and explained in it progression in and though our education system and worked through our culture through various forms of media…Children’s programming being the most skillfully carried out under the noses of parents who never thought to check out what was being fed to their children in such “innocent “ entertainments. Early TV was no exception in it’s use. Those who intended to attack our society and culture have been a lot longer at work than anyone may suspect.

    Divide and conquer , divert and direct….many employments anyone who gets further into the study of the Word will come awake to !

    To raise godly and fully equipped to protect themselves in a culture where it is now a trend of propaganda to think of Christians as ‘haters’ and children raised in the faith as ‘mentally ill’ has been the aim of those who have desired to form and shape society and the world to their own gratification of self entitled grandeur .

    Remember one thing > The devil accuses of what he is guilty of ….when someone speaks to you consider the source of what they say.

    OUT of the heart INDEED the mouth speaks.

    YOUR sons were intended to be destroyed by hurt from all they have and will have to face…BUT the devil only wins if we do not take what has happened and jam it right back down his throat and he will “lose’ what was never HIS in the first place and that is the heart, soul ,, mind and strength of those who know their GOD and have obeyed the command to equip themselves with the truths GOD has supplied for us.

    It is NEVER going to stand before the Lord that we did not do what He has given us to do because someone else failed.

    People DO fail and the more we have trusted them and loved them we find the more able their feet of clay are to disappoint us . The devil goes not for the throat so much as the HEAD . He first turns us from keeping GOD first and then tries to take the head of the marriage and family.

    The suffering of women and children does indeed follow in emotions but more in moral strength to continue themselves to seek God as their redeemer and protector . In the woman the design is to be very much more sensitive to our emotions thus GOD instructs husbands to be careful that their own flesh does not cause them to stumble and thus wound their wives.

    This will also be useful for your sons to become concerned with the truth that any compromise they make in turning from learning from what GOD gives a man to learn may also work to weaken a young woman and cause her heart to break …compromise herself and take her also down.

    Woman are also advised to do what they can to deter becoming a stumbling block to young men’s purity. This is a challenge today as many young women who do not know their value as a person from a father demonstrating it to her by his continued way of being in relationship to her…that their value according to culture is their sexuality and ability to attract men.

    This has been a much more aggressive move on the part of the devil ..seen much in part by way of Alfred Kinsey and his association with Hugh Hefner and a Nazi officer in their ‘help’ by keeping records of their sexual exploits with CHILDREN.

    This Kinsey wrote a book in the late 40s posing as a scientist and doctor…his ‘research ‘ was only recently exposed as having been done amid prostitutes and perverts in prison. Published as ‘scientific research’ and ‘discovery of what was normal for men in sexual activity ‘ it hit marriages across the country as men felt they were under ‘served ‘sexually and missing out! Along with Master’s and Johnson and their ‘research’ people began to feel that their own sexual life was less than” normal”!

    I don’t have enough time or space to elaborate but you might investigate this yourself.If a person …particularly a man or boy thinks that they are under sexed somehow and they are being constantly bombarded with media that stimulates them …then NORMAL MARITAL LOVE …which is to culminate in sexual intercourse is going to seem …’less than’

    The appetite of many men who focus upon sex due to this kind of environment plus the way woman have been ‘sold’ as objects …outside of the way God has informed us in his word has led to men excusing themselves from fidelity because their wives ‘do not have the same sexual appetite’

    This is due to a LOT of misinformation fed over many years.

    Men ARE stimulated almost immediately from visual images.

    Women are more moved by their emotions.

    One reason historically women were sheltered from men of low character by husbands and duels were fought over a woman’s honor and her emotions being ‘violated’ by being given some kind of promise that was not fulfilled !

    There is much for you to consider and search out.

    I have found out things that explain to me why my own family and my heritage has been deformed by lack of knowledge and devotion to what GOD has provided for us to avoid such disasters.

    Just because of their father’s moral failure your sons cannot claim any justification to reject what GOD has provided for them to learn that will protect them. Every day they face some form of indoctrination taught as ‘cirriculum’ but is steeped in the intentional forming of a population of people cut off from the Head which is to be GOD .

    In the family your husband may very well find a verifiable platform to speak from his own experience and loss due to deceptions that began within , sadly his own heart.

    Good intentions and rationalizations do not work well in the face of such temptations ..Jesus did not overcome by saying ‘ I feel ‘ or ‘I’m able to overcome by my own determination and self will but ‘Thy will be done’ and in the face of the devil ‘IT IS WRITTEN”

    Knowing the certainty the person who stands behind those words is what empowers us to do all that HE has said .

    We must KNOW not guess about what GOD says .

    It is a matter of life and death and always has been but now even more so as our whole nation is being turned away to follow the compromises that bring nothing good but only more deception and bondage .

    Books I mentioned I did not give titles to were Missing from Action: A Powerful Historical Response to the Crisis Among American Men by Weldon Hardenbrook and Terry Somerville (May 1996

    The account of the effects upon society of the Industrial Revolution.

    Killer Angel: A Short Biography of Planned Parenthood’s Founder, Margaret Sanger by George Grant Dr. (Jan 5, 2001)

    The Marketing of Evil: How Radicals, Elitists, and Pseudo-Experts Sell Us Corruption Disguised As Freedom by David Kupelian (Aug 1, 2005)

    THE UNDERGROUND HISTORY OF AMERICAN EDUCATION (Revised, 2006 Edition) by John Taylor Gatto (2006)

    Shaky Town: A Documentary by The Gunn Brothers 2006 DVD

    The Kinsey Sydrome 2011 dvd

    These among some of the HUNDREDS of volumes I have used in research will help you a bit .

    Nothing replaces the Bible in then checking out what you read, hear or see.

  25. Pro 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

    Psa 1:1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.

    Deu 4:9 Only take heed to thyself, and keep thy soul diligently, lest thou forget the things which thine eyes have seen, and lest they depart from thy heart all the days of thy life: but teach them thy sons, and thy sons’ sons;

    Pro 24:21 My son, fear thou the LORD and the king: and meddle not with them that are given to change:

  26. Kim,

    Thank you for your compassionate reply to my situation….I have been committed to learning and doing what the Lord Jesus Christ would work out in my life as I kept acknowledging Him to direct my path and not lean unto my own understanding or that of any other.

    This is indeed a different and difficult path at times especially when the usual feeling people have is to do as you have advised. In my view I serve myself best when I follow the Lord and in this case , though it is hard because the ‘lord’ my husband follows is his flesh .

    Serving one’s flesh is not going to bring about good no matter how good one’s intentions may be because as the scriptures say ‘ the heart is deceitful and desperately wicked’ …being compelled by our feelings and the trends of thought going on around us in the world is not OF the Lord or His truth. We may feel that we must do something FOR some reason that our feelings compels us but I think that is exactly what has gotten my husband in this situation,.

    The scriptures also warn us that ‘evil communications …companions’ corrupt good morals’ and no better example of that than my husband’s people pleasing and fear of what people would say about him if he obeyed the way GOD tells a man, a husband and a father to keep his priorities according to God’s order.

    Many times in our culture and in many churches women hear how THEY are the ones responsible for the tone and condition of the marriage but a revisit to scripture will reveal the very UN PC view that it is the man who has the greater responsibility and is actually enabled by GOD to do what will bring about his OWN happiness as he SERVES his WIFE …outside of a godly relationship with GOD and being brought to an understanding of this marriages often fall into the man either dominating,, neglecting or abandoning his responsibility to LEARN how GOD will help him govern his own flesh and govern his family .

    Starting with learning from the scriptures with appetite and willingness to believe GOD knows better than we do and wanting to learn what t that might be from a personal investigation …people , even people who say they love God often accept something from hear say rather than seeking what they need to know from their own time with the LORD IN Scripture and are led to believe or apply it by someone else encouragement that they should just ‘be happy’ or ‘doesn’t God want to you be happy” Kind of view of life.

    God does indeed want us to be happy but that is hard to do without knowing what to avoid that will bring consequences if what we want is out of the boundaries set by GOD to protect us …marriage is a good example.

    The stresses pressing in on marriage and family are many….not just today but even at the time of the first century where Paul informed us that in marriage we will have trouble…SO what else is new!

    Our latest generations take most of their information and counsel from almost everyone and everything aside from scripture …even those in ministry often are going to offer what is not found in the context of scripture but pass along something they have been taught

    Following Jesus Christ is a daily walk , A daily taking time to allow Him to guide us into those things we want and need to know to understand what to do and what is going on . This is good but many don’t feel they have the time …the truth is GOD gave us life not just for enjoying all that is around us but for us to seek Him and to spend time with him HE provided us with TIME …aka a LIFESPAN,

    It is not FOR US alone and though it is good to become more and more developed in all kinds of activities and skills ….it was back when humanism and human potential movement began to get people to focus on self

    Jesus gave us the best counsel that if we were to follow HIM we would need to ‘Deny our selves and take up our cross and follow HIM”

    Failing to understand the purpose of marriage as a testimony and example of Christ’s sacrificial love for the church …Husbands have not known the value and privilege of what it is to be a husband in truth and to learn to love his wife by putting GOD and his wife before himself.

    The abandonment of marriages , the damage to children not just emotionally but by way of destroying their opportunity to learn from example what the message of Christ’s love for the church by HIS deliberate obedience to His Father for the sake of reconciling man back to a right relationship with GOD is a GIFT to the MAN of the marriage . It is such a HIGH CALLING for a man to have a wife that Satan has pretty much confused the issue by turning people away from the WORD to seek their own way and follow their feelings and appetites.

    Just as Adam was given the freedom to choose in the Garden along with the warning in the form of the first commandment to continue to rely upon GOD …the same LIE is offered to people today . To not ‘eat the bread that came down from heaven’ which Jesus told us was to be our DAILY bread …people are famished and do not KNOW the truth that is God’s Word about everything.

    When people do not have the Word in their minds and do not refer to God to determine what is truth and good by HIS standard they will believe a LIE which often comes in the form of compelling arguments that ultimately appeal to the flesh.

    What we LIKE is no criteria for what is truth and if we choose to live by feelings and random thoughts unexampled by scripture we will not only suffer loss and painful consequences BUT WE HURT OTHERS as well .

    This kind of decision making is provided for in scripture but requires that we believe the GOD IS ..AND that HE is a rewarder of those who DILIGENTLY SEEK HIM>….not the next cool thing.

    Far from being restrictive’ as even Eve was compelled to believe from the Serpent….TRUTH is PROTECTIVE and WISE.

    The boundaries intended for protection of those within the marriage and the family OF that marriage have not changed and for those wise enough to know Love is not defined only by desire and feelings it is rewarding beyond anything most have had the opportunity to see in this day and time yet GOD has not changed and neither has his WORD .

    The only way around this has been for people to deny a Creator and poo poo that there is accountability to anyone higher than one’s own thoughts, feelings and standards set by the world , the flesh and the devil ,…as we presently see abounding all around us .

    My husband does not think about what he thinks about and so continues to make choices based upon his own opinions based upon whatever anyone tells him or what pleases his appetite from time to time …a movable path.

    As the scriptures say ” A double minded man is unstable in ALL his ways ‘ …my husband built his life on the sand of opinions and trends apart from the Word of God HE KNEW so HIS choices were based upon sliding into the company of people who did not understand nor honor marriage nor any of what GOD tells a person is necessary to live life that does no harm to anyone .

    Harm has been done and there is plenty of responsibility in the eyes of the world for this but GOD holds the MAN ultimately responsible to keep his VOWS and gives MEN MUCH instruction in HOW to do that .

    The wife and woman have their own instructions …and in this situation I STILL see my position as …is the case for the husband that in all situations and relationships listening to the LORD is FIRST .

    It is hard to continue to DO that if one is not reading and heeding HIM in the first case.

    The first commandment STILL remains for us to be protected and provided for and we are to keep GOD first no matter what happens by way of seeking to learn HIS ways from study of the scriptures …

    I realize that this is lengthy and may not be received by all …but the truth is still truth and we are all given the opportunity to continue in study of the Word to learn whatever is brought up for us to see , read or hear and then go to GOD to learn what HE has had recorded for us to learn and apply.

    Today I find that the churches are many taken up by those who seek to learn about GOD and HIS word by other means and perspectives that that which GOD has provided from scripture . Trends and popular authors appeal to our flesh and speak soothing things that encourage us to feel OK about sin ,. …not to concern ourselves with things GOD counsels us that are HARD sayings…and even as we may believe and receive Jesus as LORD and Savior and believe that GOD has raised him from the dead and are SAVED indeed …we still are exhorted to CONTINUE in HIS word …so that we may be HIS disciples INDEED>

    “Disciples INDEED” …something to chew on there.

    There is really nothing harsh or restrictive in Christ …but the flesh …or as scripture calls it ‘The CARNAL MIND opposes the things of GOD ‘ …we do not have to ‘live’ there but it takes desire and trust in GOD knowing the score for a person to be willing to patiently wait while seeking out GOD’S counsel as they opposes and even endure the way our feelings and flesh urge us to ACT NOW and ..deal with it later ….consequences often follow when we have done this …I know my husband does deal with these things now …but still rejects that HIS OWN IDEAS are sufficient for him to make good choices …so far that has not proven good for him …for the other children and certainly not for any of us ….

    There is a false idea that children who are grown are not effected by adultery of a parent….not so in this case or many of those who have been willing to discuss their life after their parental infidelity. It is a LOT bigger than people want to know or acknowledge! It effects people of all ages and not just those of the immediate family!~

    This kind of willful blindness was one of the things my husband admitted or used as his excuse for why he thought that our children would not be effected.

    He listed that I had been raising them in the faith and they would be OK …as for having the children with the OW …he reasoned that OUR children would be good influences upon them if the adultery were ever discovered ! He also sited the kids he know who ‘survived ‘ their parents situations involving adultery …which only goes to confirm that people generally want to ignore the truth of how this damages lives for many years to come and effects people despite how most people will pose as if they are fine…

    Some of his own friends children …two specifically …tried to commit suicide!

    This kind of selfish NARROW TUNNAL VISION of SIN is rampant and we have seen many of the destructive aspects that have come from it that people are not willing to accept as the ‘fruit’ of sinful choices.

    So ultimately when a person insists upon doing things for their own reasons apart from wise and sound counsel …no matter HOW they want to justify it to make themselves feel better with it …sin STILL KILLS…or as some people used to say “TWO WRONGS DO NOT MAKE A RIGHT”

    I am endeavoring to continue to keep my vows because GOD is still at work in HIS covenant which HE has invested in ….I pray for my husband to be delivered of the trap he keeps insisting is HIS best choice even as he often tells me he is unsure and does not know what he hopes to accomplish by his fence straddling . Meanwhile he is tossed too and fro by the whims of the children who now play him just as he was played by the OW …even as he has said he ‘hates’ her!

    1Co 14:33
    For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

    Jas 3:16
    For where envying and strife is, there Is confusion and every evil work.

    I take no pleasure in observing that adultery plus children has fostered this kind of attitude in the lives of all concerned. “Envy and strife ‘ have been brought into the relationships not by my insisting upon my husband doing anything but to do the things that are called for for HIM and all in HIS JURISDICTION …in proper order.

    However he has had the ‘freedom’ to do what he has wanted…and it has now only compounded his confusion…his entanglement which has become worse and worse and he does not enjoy it …but refuses …probably due to pride to make any sort of changes that would foster health in any of these relationships.

    He is alienating our children as they are being treated with the ‘short end’ of the stick as my husband serves his own body …paying for a personal trainer …you can work on the flesh but the inside is rotting away …meanwhile many aspects of our home need his strength and attention but he continues to live off another person’s generostity …not a woman …and work hard to ‘pay back’ to our family while doling out thousands which we do not have for the whims of the now teenage daughter and the young boy.

    Our children have been left to observe his efforts toward the other children while breaking promises and ignoring them on a more and more frequent basis.

    His own conscience is bothering him and like Adam he seeks to regard me and all of his true priorities before GOD as the ‘problem’

    What can I tell you. When a person disobeys God , breaks their vows and shirks their godly responsibilities and jurisdiction and seeks to plant a crop in a field not his own in the name of NOT being a ‘deadbeat dad’ …he is going to find himself in more messes as time goes by.

    He is throwing away blessings by the handfuls and reaping NOTHING but HARDSHIP in return…and denying any of the ways that good order and counsel would help dealing with the whole situation for the betterment of all concerned.

    His assumption that is his distant relationship with me and our children would be OK because our children ‘KNOW that he loves them’ ….is not working out so well.

    His demonstration of willingness to abandon me and do all that he is doing is only demonstrating to the children of adultery that marriage does not matter and that adultery pays off …for a while.

    His children of the marriage are appalled but are wise in the things of GOD and realize even more that this demonstrates that GOD’S WORD IS TRUE and worth taking time for and learning how to live by .

    The abandonment of listening to the Word of GOD has been very destructive not just to individual lives but to families and communities and now we see the ‘fruit’ of it in our nation and around the world

    It only PROVES what GOD has recorded for whomsoever is willing to seek Him and follow after learning what HE has offered to us in the Bible through Jesus Christ the righteous.

    I appreciate your desire to encourage and help …often times people with great compassion and love for others do not want to see anyone endure the hardship and difficulty that they might by staying in the marriage that is wounded in this way . I do understand …I hope in the knowledge that with this being the case that when the deliverance comes it will all the more glorify GOD for He is the reason for life and marriage in its inception.

    I do thank you for your loving exhortation and kindness in your post.

    Gal 6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

    James 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

    Jas 1:4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

    Heb 10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

  27. A case study in domestic abuse and how abusers recruit allies, from Judges 19-21.
    See what people think about this video by going to http://cryingoutforjustice.wordpress….

    For the video which exposites Judges 19-21 examining how the Abusers behavior and character are indicated here

  28. Thank you for the good writeup. … However, how could we be in contact?

  29. Deandre Who are you addressing in your question? Not quite sure …the author of the thread?

  30. I just came across this thread and wow, it really hits home at a time I need it most. I am also very much in a similar situation. For now I will just summarize my situation. My husband and I are both Christians, we dated for 3 years prior to being married. After being married for 4 years, and trying 9 months to become pregnant, we had a beautiful baby girl. (We have currently been married for almost 8 years and together 11.) I truly thought we had a perfect, Godly life.

    However, 2 months after our daughters birth I came home to a letter where my husband confessed an on/off affair for 2 years, and that he had found out that the other woman was pregnant. He said he wanted to be with me and would do everything he needed to. I loved him, and wanted the best for our new family. We started couples counseling that summer, although it was extremely difficult figuring out what involvement he would have with the child, he told me he decided not to have any involvement.

    Fast forward two years (our daughter was almost 3) and his daughter with the other woman was turning 2. He confessed that he had been speaking with the other woman for 3 months again (only phone and email, no physical visit) and decided he wanted to see his other daughter but was committed to ending the affair. I was heart broken, but I prayed and believed I was where I needed to be and with Gods help we would work things out. My husband went to visit the child with his sister (the other woman wouldn’t allow me to visit (and honestly I didn’t know if I was ready for it or not) but I knew there needed to be some accountability). After the meeting my husband was happy to have visited her and enrolled in an in depth affair recovery group. Then that December he wrote the other woman a letter than he wanted no contact with her but was unsure about the future relationship with him and his daughter. The other women continued to write for about a week to manipulate him into being with her and leaving me, but then all contact stopped. My husband was turning into an amazing partner, amazing father to our daughter, and strengthening our relationship with Christ. He went from completing the therapy to become a mentor to another class just this past summer. However, during all this time he never communicated the involvement with the other child to the other woman, although he told me that for a few years he wanted no contact. As I said his last therapy mentoring ended in May.

    I thought things were going wonderfully, we even began discussing having another child next year. But, my world came crashing down last week. My husband came to me and confessed that 2 weekends ago he had went to visit the other woman and child (who lives 8 hours away) when I thought he was on a business trip. My husband stated that everything with us was and still is amazing and that he loves me very much. That he has already enrolled in another therapy class, which he did a few days after that visit. The only explanation I got is that in July thoughts of the child just kept eating and eating at him so he called the other women to check on the child. He said for 2 weeks it was only about the child, but on one call the other woman began pouring out her feelings again on how he is the only one she will ever love, and how she has not been able to see any other men, and never will, because he is her soul mate, reminiscing about good times in the past, etc., etc., With her words his emotional connection came rushing back and one month later he went to visit her. My husband says after that visit his guilt was uncontrollable and he had to come clean with me, to immediately seek therapy, and do everything possible to stop his behavior for good.

    I am still giving our marriage another chance, I pray for strength, but believe there is still hope. Like many of you I sometimes wonder if I also have stupid written across my face, but I firmly believe in my marriage vows of for better or worse, but I don’t know if a relapse were to occur again how much more emotionally I could handle, However, we are currently discussing our future and he believes in order not to relapse again he needs a relationship with the other child. Although this will be very difficult in the beginning, I will support my husband and standby him, for if he has a relationship with her, of course I want to develop an emotional relationship with her as well and let her know her half sister.

    Although not communicated yet to the other woman we have both agreed that there can be no contact whatsoever between my husband and the other woman. That he would like weekly calls with his other daughter and a few visits a year but we will use some form of intermediary for all exchanges. If she will not accommodate this arrangement then I fear we will have to go to court to allow my husband these rights. I think it will come to this because the other woman has maintained a her or me attitude and used the innocent child as a lure to bring my husband back to her. I truly believe I can embrace this and the other child. I am very much struggling now with how to address the situation and introduce my child with the other child.

    Please if any of you have experience with this or any advise I would be very appreciative. Our daughter is 4 years old now, and very, very smart. The other child just turned 3. How do we introduce her half-sister. I know my daughter would be very accepting of the child as it would be a little girl to talk and play with, with similar interests, but I also know she will have tons of questions on why she has a sister, why she doesn’t live with us, how her half sister is 3 years old and she is 4 but she isn’t mommy’s daughter. I want my daughter to know that this isn’t a normal situation and going outside of marriage is wrong, but also don’t want any blame placed on the innocent, other child. Please, can anyone offer any advice? Also, for those of you that have accepted a child that is the result of your husband’s affair, how do you address others – friends and extended family, when they question the situation. What do you say, how do you handle it. Unfortunately we live in a small town and once this is out I’m sure it will be passed through the “rumor-mill” quickly. I know with God and family I can get through it but I would like to know how to handle to with grace and dignity. Thank you all soo much.

  31. What is best for a marriage is focus and fidelity to the spouse of that marriage and any children of that jurisdiction given to the MAN to lead .

    Children raised as God has directed FATHERS is their best chance at having a decent life having learned the wisdom and skill that arises from a godly upbringing and a morally strong character.

    Which choice does that apply to your situation?

    Can a man ‘father” a child born out of wedlock and parent them in all that God has set forth while ‘teaching by example’ his own ‘doctrine’ of life based upon his emotions and the godless society’s party line?

    What does the Bible say about ” the double minded man who is UNSTABLE in ALL HIS WAYS”?Will he be a godly and good influence upon any child?

    What did Jesus say about a man not being able to serve God and mammon…two masters…he will either hate the one and love the other.

    Many examples in scripture of men and women who tried to write their own code of ethics and the children are recorded as being the ones to suffer.

    From my study of the word over 46 years and having dealt with a man who refused to repent and reconcile TO GOD ….his decision based upon his emotions and his fear of MAN ….led to his eventually being taken little by little from his walk and his marriage and finally his own children by marriage because he was afraid society’ s humanist doctrine in regard to dead beat dads …would somehow define him if he did not take part in the lives of the two children he and the OW had because she wanted them..”

    She manipulated his emotions and ego by way of having them and then neglecting them …I agreed he needed to have a relationship with them to care for them with the priviso that he be careful of not only HER manipulation but the children as well ….

    They learned from their mom to “work”my husband until he has left our home…not divorced but remains very confused and miserable because he would not take the WQRD of GOD and the proper order of priorities set there to heart.

    Our family became LAST in his life first due to his career and then due to the OW and now to those kids.

    It is instructive to learn that all of his downfall came from not wanting to READ the WORD to be taught by the Lord how to live and love . He is still too proud and independent and he is actually teaching THOSE children by example to reject God and Christ and all things that would help them navigate through life by not doing what HE and their mother did.

    They have rejected Christ outright and my husband is taking them down the same path he has gone without any regard for anyone that he SAYS he loves and does not want to hurt.

    I am observing they would have been better off without his intruding since he will not stand up to the OW in his right s to father them but is now just a ‘weak ‘ self centered person using his relationship with them NOT for THEIR good but for his own ego,

    Lose Lose

  32. Whatever someone else is going through with a spouse caught in adultery ….prayer is our greatest leverage and All scripture is useful to keep us protected from falling into sin ourselves as satan will work through our emotions and if we do not guard our thoughts …equipping with the Word of God and by the Holy Spirit being granted understanding of how we must walk to please the Lord despite all efforts of the devil to entice us to fall into sins ….for we would be no different than those who have committed a specific sin if we do not contend within for the truth as well as without.

    Knowledge of the WORD ongoing and asking the Lord to lead us to understand what wisdom needs be applied to our walk …we will be equipped by enduring as we grow in patience for us to have this ….

    Romans 5:5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

    2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

    3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that TRIBULATION WORKETH PATIENCE;

    4 And patience, experience; and experience, HOPE:

    5 And HOPE MAKETH NOT ASHAMED;BECAUSE the love OF GOD is shed abroad in our hearts BY the Holy Ghost which is GIVEN unto us.

    6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

    7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

    8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

    9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

    10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

    Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

    and…Romans 6:

    20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

    21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

    22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

    23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
    With our Lord we are able to continue in faith for the sake of HIS glory and for salvations sake as we are commanded ….

    Rom 12:14 Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not.

    Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, AND that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

    Romans 8:8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH , but after the Spirit.

    2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me FREE from the LAW ….. of SIN and death.

    3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

    4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

    5 For they that are AFTER the flesh do MIND the things OF the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

    6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

    7 Because the carnal mind is ENMITY AGAINST GOD: for it is NOT SUBJECT TO the law of God, neither indeed can be.

    8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

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